Maxwell Leadership Podcast: What to Do Next with Jeff Henderson

Mark Cole:

Hey, welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. This is the podcast that adds value to leaders who multiply value to others. My name is Mark Cole, and oh, I am so excited about today. I’ve been thinking about this conversation for about a year, and that’s because over the past couple of years, millions of people, they’re quitting their jobs, they’re asking, “What do I do next?” I’ve asked that question. I’ve had a next moment, as I’m sure that you’ve had. In fact, it’s been called the Great Resignation. And today, that’s why Maxwell Leadership is excited about a new book from our very own thought leader, Jeff Henderson.

Now, let me tell you why I’ve said I’ve been excited for a year, because Jeff’s been working on this book, and I remember the first time Jeff came to me and he said, “Mark, I’ve got my next book. I know what it’s going to be,” and he began to build out this book on what is next, What to Do Next: Taking Your Best Step When Life Is Uncertain.

And so I’m really excited today because you can go, of course, to maxwellpodcast.com/next and you can download the bonus resource button. But before you even do that, I’ve got to tell you, you want to grab a pen, you want to grab a paper, you want to put aside the distractions, because today, the question for you, the question for me is, “What to do next?” And Jeff, I am so glad that you’re here today.

Jeff Henderson:

Well, first of all, Mark, you’ve been a part of this from the very beginning. And one of the things I share about the book, you got to have some people that you’re journeying through life with, and you at the top of the list. And you and Stephanie have been a huge part of Wendy and my journey, and so, first of all, you could do this podcast without me because you’ve lived it on the other side of me.

Mark Cole:

You know what’s funny, Jeff, and I tell this story as often as I can and I’ve got to tell it right here at the beginning of this podcast, because I was in a what’s next, what to do next moment when our past did more than cross. We’ve known each other for years. I’ve known of you and the influence in the Atlanta area for years. But there was a moment I was struggling with what to do next with an opportunity that was in my life, and I came to you and I asked you to mentor me in some specific areas. You began to mentor me, and as I read the book, I realized some principles you were using about three and four years ago that you put in the book. So here’s my big question. Podcast family, just forgive me. I’m really the foundation of this book. So do I get some royalties on this, Jeff?

Jeff Henderson:

Absolutely. Well, you and John Maxwell

Mark Cole:

Okay, okay, okay. Hey, let’s do jump in again. Go to maxwellpodcast.com/next. We’ll put some resources there for you. We’re going to tell you how to order the book. I’m already going to tell you before this interview, you want this book, What to Do Next. Order the book.

Jeff Henderson:

That’s right.

Mark Cole:

That’s what. So go to maxwellpodcast.com/next.

Jeff, you know our passion here on the podcast. You’re a part of our family, you’re a Maxwell Leadership thought leader. Our desire is to add value to leaders, and every leader’s journey begins with these moments. I call them watershed moments to where the decision and the responsibility to act when you’re not sure which decision to make the crossroad is what begins to happen, and so kind of, this book is really for all of us at certain times and often many times in our leadership journey. So what I’d love to do is I’d love for you to just share with us what is the overarching principle of this book. What are we trying to accomplish with this book?

Jeff Henderson:

Right. Well, I think every leader’s journey, Mark, every listener could say, “Hey, here’s some moments, here’s a season that I was trying to figure out what to do next.” And it may not even be leaving your company to go to another company. It could be staying within your company but trying to grow, because growth, we’re all about growth here at Maxwell Leadership, and what I’ve discovered is opportunities flow to those who grow. So that doesn’t mean that you have to necessarily leave, but you do need to be thinking about, “What’s my next growth opportunity?” My friend, David Farmer, who works at Chick-fil-A says if you’re the same person six months from now, you’re falling behind.

So this opportunity of what’s next for me is so important. So there’s a principle here, though, that’s very helpful, and that principle is, you don’t have to figure out the rest of your life. You just have to figure out what to do next. And when I share that with people, you see the pressure just fade from their life or from their face like, “Oh, I can figure out what to do next, but I don’t know what I’m supposed to do for the rest of my life.”

I’ll give you an example of what I mean by that. I think our culture’s done a disservice to the next generation, 18, 19, 20, early 20s, when they go, “Hey, what’s your major going to be? Check a box,” or, “What are you going to do for the rest of your life?” And when I’m in front of the next generation, I tell them this, “You don’t have to figure that out.” What you need to figure out, especially in your 20s is just figure out what to do next. And you’re going to look back, and if you make the wisest possible decision, which is why being around a Maxwell Leadership community is so helpful because you’re around people that are trying to get better and grow. If you put yourself around that community and you figure out what to do next, you’re going to look back and go, “Oh, now I see where my journey was taking me.”

I remember, when my dad turned 80, he said, “Son, I’m so excited about being 80,” which is something you rarely hear. You don’t hear that often. And I’m like, “All right, tell me about that.” He goes, “I can see my life’s journey now and how… The moments in my life in the 40s, I’m thinking, ‘What is happening here?’ Now that I look back, I see how all of this, as you make the next wise decision, how all of this led to where I am in my 80s.”

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Jeff Henderson:

You can’t see it then, so what you have to do is just make the next best move. That makes it very practical, it makes it less daunting, going, “What am I…” And the world is changing so fast. I don’t know if five-year plans really are reality, basically. But if you can figure out what to do next…

Mark Cole:

You know what’s interesting is, is this morning, as I was preparing for the podcast, I had a quick little meeting with someone that just graduated from University of Georgia.

Jeff Henderson:

Go, Dawgs.

Mark Cole:

Good choice. This is a good human being already, right? We already know.

Jeff Henderson:

I hope we didn’t lose people when I said, “Go, Dawgs.”

Mark Cole:

High potential. But I found myself at 53 describing to this young college grad the what next conversation of, “These are the things that you need to consider.” And so what I love about this book is no matter where you are, podcast family, in your leadership, what generation you’re in, what decade you’re living your life out, or where you are in your leadership journey, we all are facing what’s next thoughts and decisions in our life. In fact, you talk about a moment that happened to you shortly after you left the church to pursue this next season, and what I’d love to do is, because it kind of links with John Maxwell and it links with this concept that John is so good, he’s great at the next step decision. He knows that to do this, “What am I anticipating for the next?” So tell us a little bit about that whole moment that you had there.

Jeff Henderson:

Well, I want to, but you mentioned something before we started recording about the back of the room.

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Jeff Henderson:

Can you tell our listeners about that? Because I think that’ll lead to what I’m about to say. But I think that shows some DNA within Maxwell Leadership.

Mark Cole:

I get asked all the time, “What is the greatest business lesson that you’ve learned?” Because like you, Jeff, preacher’s kid. Unlike you, I went to a small little Christian college and I thought my life was going in a direction that my parents were happy with, and then I find myself at 30 starting over in the business world. So no business degree, no business experience, and then now, I am in this Maxwell world that is great ministry but it’s also great business.

And I’ll never forget, because when I get asked that question, “What was the greatest thing?” we call it the Back of the Room principle. We have events to get to the back of the room, and the back of the room lets people know what’s next on their leadership journey. It’s so funny that we’re interviewing, we’re talking about this book today. When you asked me what is the greatest business lesson I learned as a business leader that now runs seven multimillion dollar companies, it was the what’s next question. It was this question that says, “We have events, absolutely, to add value to people so that what? What’s next?” And we always answer that question. So take us back to that moment you left the church. It’s like John’s really kind of in your head, “What’s next?”

Jeff Henderson:

Well, and you had been a part of this conversation. In fact, it’s interesting to me as I look back. Again, it’s kind of like my dad, “Now that I look back…” I remember I think three years before or two years before I left the church to pursue what I’m doing now, you called me and said, “Hey, we have some Maxwell Leadership-certified coaches in town. Can you come over and talk about Know What You’re For? My first book. And I did that, and when I got in that room, I thought, “This is my community. These are like-minded people. Where have you been all my life?” Right? And I said, “Mark, who are these people? What do they do?” And fast forward, I’m part of the community here.

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Jeff Henderson:

So these moments happen. You have to be aware of them. But even in that moment we were thinking, “Okay, what’s next? How can I add value to the coaches?”

So left the church, took 30 days off, and then went down to West Palm for an event called Exchange, which, if you haven’t been a part of Exchange, it’s 140 leaders, it’s amazing, and it’s really an experience. It’s not just a conference, it’s an experience.

So I’m speaking at the conference, but John spoke before me, and John had this statement that I will never forget. He was talking about his early days of leaving the church to pursue adding value to leaders, and he said, “I didn’t really have a clear vision. I just kept moving forward.” And it’s like the room just stopped for a moment. And I thought, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. I understand how little old me, a mere mortal, doesn’t have a clear vision. But John Maxwell, the leadership guru, the man who really, in my opinion, didn’t invent leadership but he invented the leadership category, he didn’t have a clear vision?”

It helped put so many categories because I remember hearing John tell a story about, I think he got up for 30 days in a row and said, “Do it now, do it now, do it now,” like just action, action, action, and I thought, “Okay, I kind of know what I’m going to do, I kind of know where I’m going, but I don’t really have a clear vision. I’m just going to get up and keep moving forward.” And I write about in the book the 24-hour Rule, and the 24-hour Rule is, if I’m pursuing an opportunity and it doesn’t pan out like I thought, I’ll give myself 24 hours to grieve and to moan, and then after that, I got to get up and I got to keep moving forward.

So when it comes to figuring out what’s next for people, a lot of times, Mark, next happens to people. They don’t happen to next. For example, the company got downsized, a new boss comes in and makes a change or whatever, and now, suddenly, they’re out of a job or they’re out of a role. Well, what do you need to do next? Give yourself a 24-hour grieving rule, get up, and keep moving forward. As I look at John’s life and your life, that’s what you all have done. You just kept moving forward.

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Mark Cole:

Here’s what I love about your writing, Jeff, and you’re one of our thought leaders. I can’t wait for your next book, and we’re still on Next.

Jeff Henderson:

That’s right.

Mark Cole:

But here’s what I love. Whether it’s For. Brilliant book. If you haven’t got it, whether you’re viewing or listening, you need to grab that and What’s Next. But this book now, For, this book now, Next. Your books are not theory. Now, it’s theoretical, because For is one of the greatest theories that impacted the city of Atlanta, the county of Gwinnett.

Next is the same thing. It is a great theoretical concept to always be thinking about what is next. But you do more than that. You take the experiences of 24 years of life changes. For the last 24 years, you’ve made some big changes. How do you deal with risk and opportunity as you make these big changes that you’ve made over the last 24 years?

Jeff Henderson:

So the question I get is, “How do you eliminate risk?” Oh, I wish we lived in that world. You don’t eliminate risk, but you can manage it. So kind of the word picture I have is, when you’re making a decision, it doesn’t have to be a leap over the Grand Canyon. “Oh, I hope I make it to the other side.” You can shrink the risk down to a mud puddle. Yeah, you may jump over the mud puddle and you may get wet and muddy, but you’re not plunging thousands of feet below. There are some strategies that you can employ that can help you get to the other side. And yeah, we’re all going to get a little muddy and a little wet, but that’s part of life.

One of the reasons this is important, especially for those married couples, is this reason. Typically, in a marriage… I know not all of our listeners are married, but I think you can relate to this. Typically, in a marriage, there’s one partner that’s all about risk, “Let’s go conquer the world,” and there’s the other one that’s all about security, “Yeah, but how are we going to pay our bills?” Right? And so what happens is when you have a plan, like we write it out in the book, it really helps the security person to go, “Okay, we’re just not out there just wildly dreaming.” It helps the person that’s a dreamer and, “Hey, we can go do this.” It helps them to have a little bit more of a plan to go, “Hey, what’s our step to the vision?” And so you can’t eliminate risk, but you can manage it. So what I wanted to do in the book is get some very practical strategies about how do you shrink the risk. There’s always going to be that risk, but how do you do that and keep moving forward at the same time?

Mark Cole:

Well, and I’m going to hold the book up now because even the cover is inspiring. What to Do Next, Jeff Henderson’s book, you need to pick this up. But you look at that, you see the arrow, and it’s like, “Okay, this is momentum.” Your book, For, you pick it up and I’m already inspired. I just picked the book up, I hold it in my hands. I know you’re a good writer, you’re a good communicator. I got it. But like you just said, you do much more than inspire us in this book. You give us some strategies. I’d love for you to just walk us through one or two of the strategies in the book.

Jeff Henderson:

Absolutely. So strategy number one is, your personal network largely determines your personal net worth. It’s the old adage, who you know is really more important than what you know. What you know is important, but who you know is really, really important. And again, I hope John doesn’t charge me for every time I mention him in the book, but I put the best networking question I’ve ever heard, and guess where I heard it? I heard it through Dr. Maxwell. And the great networking question is, when you sit down with someone and you’re building your network, you ask this question, “Who do you know that I need to know? Who do you know that I need to know, and will you introduce me to them?”

And here’s why this is so important. Even if you’re listening to it today and you’re like, “Well, Jeff, I don’t want to figure out what’s next,” here’s one of the things you’ve got to do even though you might not be in a season, you need to build your personal network. You need to build your personal network because if you don’t, it’s kind of like life insurance. You need it, and you wish you had life insurance, right? So when you are building your personal network, you’re creating more opportunities because who you know is really more important than what you know. And in the book, I talk about a plan about how you can build your personal network to the extent of 10 more people within a month if you’ll just follow this plan, and it’s really following this, “Who do you know that I need to know?”

The other part of what I talk about is what to do while you wait, and the challenge in what to do next is we feel like we’re waiting. “I don’t know what to do.” And there’s three ways that you can wait. You can wait recklessly. So you just go, “I’m tired. I’m just going to quit, walk out of the office,” and Jerry Maguire moment, “I’m out of here,” right?

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Jeff Henderson:

So that’s waiting recklessly. That feels good for about a day. You can wait passively, which is, “I’m just a victim. There’s nothing I can do,” or you can wait actively. There are some things that you can do. And so I talk about in the book the value of side hustles, that you are experimenting on the side. For example, because of my Chick-fil-A background, people come up to me all the time and say, “Hey, do you think I should become a Chick-fil-A operator?” My answer is, “I don’t know, but I know how you can find out. This week, go to your local Chick-fil-A and apply for a part-time job. If you don’t like your part-time job there, you’re not going to want to own the business,” right? Well, that’s a side hustle. And if people tell me, “Oh, I don’t want to go get a part-time job there,” then I think, “Well, you’re not really serious about this.” But for those that are thinking, “Oh, I’ve never thought about that,” and they go and apply for a part-time job, that’s a side hustle.

Let me give you an example of a side hustle. 12 years ago, I started coaching preachers about how to preach better sermons online, with all this curriculum. Well, I didn’t know, 12 years later, that’s a part of my business now. I coach business executives on the content that I created 12 years ago. That was just a little side hustle. I’m just trying to do something on the side just to learn and to grow. I learned so much about internet marketing, building a business, and all that. Well, fast forward 12 years, here I am.

So you can do something in a season of waiting, and so that’s why this is so important, I think, because yeah, if you want to figure out what to do next, you got to create some side hustles some of the time. Not all the time, but some of the time. And that’s hard because we’re all busy. I get all that. But it doesn’t have to be a 20-hour-a-week deal. It could be, “I’m going to read a book. I’ve got a growth strategy.” I think we’ll talk about the Maxwell Leadership growth plan. But one of the most important things that you can do now, for all of us, is to keep growing, because that growth is going to lead you somewhere. As I said earlier, opportunities flow to those who grow.

Mark Cole:

Wow. So I’ll never forget. And I talked with John Maxwell early this morning. He has a full schedule and he was like, “You’re doing that interview without me, so apologies to you on the podcast land and to you, Jeff.” John really wanted to be here. But do you remember when I sent you the picture, I think we were flying to Dubai, of John reading your book, For?

Jeff Henderson:

Oh, absolutely.

Mark Cole:

He wasn’t holding that up for a social media impression. If you’ll remember, he was looking a little rough. We’d been in about 10 hours of flight thus far. But he said, “Mark, this book is causing me to think like I haven’t thought in a long time.” That was John’s first praise for FOR. When he read this book, this Next concept that I’m getting ready to ask you about, was his aha moment where he went, “Oh my. That’s incredible.” Because here’s what John teaches. You know this in podcast land. Leaders go towards something, not away from something, right? It’s a Next statement, “Be going towards something.” That’s John Maxwell’s way of saying what’s next, be headed somewhere.

But what you talk about in this book is how to leave well. Very uncommon for leaders to think about, “How do I leave well?” because they just want to know, “How do I get there well?” And you tackled this in this book and I love you for it, and I love this concept in the book, and it was the moment in this book, this concept, this way of thinking, that really grabbed John as he was picking up this book, going, “I’m so glad Jeff is one of our thought leaders. I’m so glad me and Jeff are working together to impact the world.” Talk to us a little bit about this. How does a leader leave well?

Jeff Henderson:

Isn’t it interesting we don’t talk about leaving well enough in leadership circles? And if I can take you back, there’s an overarching principle here and that is, the better you finish your current season, the better you begin your next season. And a part of that is your emotional health of leaving and it’s also valuing others in the process. We can trick ourselves into thinking, “Hey, I put in a two-week notice, I put in a four-week notice. I’m just going to go play golf for four weeks. What are they going to do, fire me?”

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Jeff Henderson:

That’s not adding value to people and it’s really not adding value to your legacy there.

Mark Cole:

Brilliant.

Jeff Henderson:

One of my mentors said, “Leave things better than when you found them.” Well, I don’t want to fumble at the finish line. So if I can take you back to my first big career move, that was leaving Chick-fil-A, I was at Chick-fil-A marketing, to help launch a church in the Atlanta area called Buckhead Church. And this was one of the first video churches, video multisite churches, meaning that the preacher’s on video. So imagine me explaining to my parents and my in-laws, “I’m going to leave this multi-billion dollar company where everybody loves me to go help start a church where the preacher’s on video.” As a preacher’s kid, “The preacher can’t be on video. Have you-“

Mark Cole:

“This is sacrilegious.”

Jeff Henderson:

That’s right. “Have you lost your mind?” So there’s a lot of risk here, right? I can’t eliminate the risk. I can manage it. So I put in a two-month notice at Chick-fil-A and I wrote everybody in the marketing department, which is about, at that time, like 80 people, and the executive committee at Chick-fil-A a handwritten note and said, “Thank you. This is what I’ve learned. Thank you so much.” Now, what I didn’t write in the note but it was implied is, “Hey, if Buckhead Church doesn’t work out, can I come back?”

Mark Cole:

“Will you save my seat?”

Jeff Henderson:

That’s right. But they had a big conference. I was part of the talk that the senior VP gave in front of the entire organization. I had all my goals and I was going to finish strong. I wasn’t going to just drop the ball in the way.

So a few years later, one of my friends said, “Hey, I just want to let you know, you are the poster child for leaving well.”

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Jeff Henderson:

And now, Mark, it’s not surprising that that was almost 20 years ago. Part of what I do now is I have a lot of connections with Chick-fil-A, right? If I had left there… I didn’t have any idea about, “Hey, 18 years from now, I’m going to be doing some business with them.” That wasn’t really the goal. But don’t burn bridges, because when you burn bridges, you’re really the one that ends up burned. And again, sometimes we don’t plan for this, right? Typically. But if you’re retiring or you see an end in the horizon, finish well, finish well.

And now, how you leave an organization is one thing. How the organization leaves you is a totally different thing.

Mark Cole:

Totally different. You can’t control that.

Jeff Henderson:

Can’t control that. Don’t react to that. Just finish well.

So at Gwinnett Church, when I left Gwinnett Church, I put in a six-week notice, I got our leadership team together, and I said, “Hey. I mean, I’ve been serving you for almost 10 years now, but I work for you now. And so here’s my list. I’m going to be preaching a sermon series, I’m going to write these birthday cards to all the volunteers, I’m doing all this stuff. Is this what you want me to do? Is there anything on this list that I’m not doing to finish well?” And they said, “No. If you’ll do that for six weeks, we’ll be great.”

So unbeknownst to me, our last day, they threw this outdoor concert, because this is in like middle of COVID, right? Outdoor concert, the church came there, and they had literally, Lauren Espy and the team literally created a finish line where it said, “Well done.” And Wendy and Jesse, my son Cole was at college, walked to the finish line.

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Jeff Henderson:

That was a literal picture of finishing well. Well, you may not have a literal finish line, but every single leader listening to this, there is a finish line.

Mark Cole:

Yep.

Jeff Henderson:

And the header that you are leading yourself emotionally toward that, this is why you are, for so many reasons, such a gift to me, other people saying, “Finish well, finish well. You’re not going to get this time back. Finish well.” It’s a part of every leadership journey. But we think it’s two weeks, three weeks, four weeks. No, it’s bigger than that. It’s your legacy.

Mark Cole:

So my big takeaway there, Jeff, and I’ve never thought of it this way, be careful how you leave, because your current situation could be your future opportunity.

Jeff Henderson:

Absolutely.

Mark Cole:

And you just illustrated that in such a great way. I’m going to stay here for just a minute longer because I’ve never… How many years? Four years of podcast. We’ve never talked about finishing well. In fact, again, we say, “Go towards something. Don’t go away from something.” But I’m going to stay right here, because you hired a transition coach. Number one, what is a transition coach, and number two, why did you hire a transition coach?

Jeff Henderson:

Well, I got another mentor. A friend of mine said, “Hey, this is a guy that’s going to help you work through the emotions of leaving,” and he does that. So I’ll give you an example. My first meeting with him, I said, “Hey, I got four issues, three business, one just the emotions of leaving,” and he goes, “All right, let’s just talk about the emotions.” We spent the entire time about the emotions of leaving, right?

Here’s the good news. For the Maxwell Leadership community, you do this. You invest in people, you want to add value to people, your heart is in this, you’re leaving, or you’re leading, rather, for all the right reasons. Well, when you pull away from that and move on, there’s emotions. You gave a lot of your heart and soul away. So having another person you process this with, “Here’s how I’m feeling.”

An example would be, one day I got a call, “Hey,” and it was through the Maxwell Leadership team. “Hey, we would like for you to come and speak here.” It was awesome. But then the next moment, I’m kind of grieving about this last season. We’d launched two churches and all this kind of stuff. And so my transition consultant said, because I said, “At one moment, I’m incredibly happy, and another moment, I’m grieving,” and he said, “Jeff, the emotionally healthy person can hold joy and sorrow at the same time.” I thought, “That’s amazing.” And he goes, “You’re going to have some good days and you’re going to have some bad days.” But he drew me this picture of like a half smile or a skateboard halfpipe. He goes, “What we’re trying to do is to get you so much momentum that you crest over this and move towards your future. But don’t move too fast.”

And part of next is grieving, and I talk about it in the book. I know you didn’t get this book to talk about grief, but transitions come with a certain level of grief, and if you don’t grieve well, your body will make sure you do.

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Jeff Henderson:

We’ve all known people that didn’t grieve seasons well and their body just shut them down. So grieve well and really process the emotions of whatever that transition was. Even these moves I’ve had, it hasn’t been because I hated it. There was a picture of something in the future, but I couldn’t do both. I mean, when I left Chick-fil-A, oh my goodness. The first time they did the Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl without me and it worked, incredible.

Mark Cole:

It worked.

Jeff Henderson:

“Oh no, they really didn’t need me.” And I’ll say this, too. So I saw a picture of this when Jimmy Collins, who was the president of Chick-fil-A, when he retired. He got up in front of the entire organization and he said, “Hey, I’m about to retire, but I want to leave no muddy footprints.” And I thought, “Oh my goodness.” I said, “Okay, so what does that mean?” He said, “One of the things that means is if an operator ever calls down to the home office at Chick-fil-A, the support center Chick-fil-A, and asks for Jimmy, I want the receptionist to say, ‘Jimmy who?’ Because I want to leave no muddy footprints, that it’s not about me, it’s about the organization moving forward.” This is an ego test. Finishing well is an ego test. We all have an ego. That’s part of it. We don’t need to apologize for that. But leaving well and being forgotten is actually a good thing.

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

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Mark Cole:

So much of the book. Thank you for digging into that. That was so important for our audience, our visual and our audible audience, to hear how to go to next is also part of the process, not just the destination. But so much of the book is about this next opportunities, what do I do with what we’ve been given. One of the concepts that you talk about is a thought converter. Okay, so a thought converter, what is a thought converter? And talk to us a little bit about that concept in the book.

Jeff Henderson:

Becoming more aware of how I’m thinking and what my thoughts are has been a game-changer in this season. So a thought converter would be this. So early, I would think, “What if this doesn’t work?” I mean, I left something. In each one of these moves, Mark, I left something that was working. For example, when I left Buckhead Church to help launch Gwinnett Church, there was a part of me that thought, “Oh my goodness, what if Gwinnett Church isn’t successful and I was like a one-hit wonder,” if you will, right?

Mark Cole:

Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Henderson:

So early on, I had this thought, “What if it doesn’t work? What if it doesn’t work?” So when that thought came, I had to recognize, “Okay, there it is, there it is,” and I had to convert it. And what I mean by that is I converted, “What if this doesn’t work?” to, “What if this does work?” and start thinking about, “Oh, if this does work, I’ll get to be on the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. If this does work, I could write a new book, What to Do Next. If this does work, look at the opportunity that I have to add value to so many.” I mean, I was driving over here today going, “This is an example of what if it does work, because I get to be a part of the Maxwell Leadership team, the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. Here we are adding value to thousands and thousands of leaders.” Okay, that drives me, moves me forward versus, “Oh no, what if it doesn’t work?” and you get so locked into fear, right? So, “What if this does work?” That’s what I had to convert that thought to.

Mark Cole:

Well, a thought converter for me is back to your book, For, is so many times, and this is your statement, so many times, we want to be the best company in the world. Why don’t we start wanting to be the best company for the world?

Jeff Henderson:

Right.

Mark Cole:

That’s a thought converter. I’m a CEO of a company, an internationally-recognized brand, John Maxwell, Maxwell Leadership. We’re a recognized brand. What if we start talking about what we are trying to accomplish rather than what we’re trying to keep everybody else from. So many politicians, so many church leaders, so many leaders spend time talking about what they’re against. Let’s start talking about what we’re for. Well, that’s another thought converter, and the book is filled with things like that that is going to help you get positioned mentally, relationally about what is next. Let me go… You talk about pursuing what’s next comes with discomfort, and isn’t that true? What keeps a lot of us from what’s next is the unknown discomfort that’s coming. So talk to us a little bit about why is it so uncomfortable to engage in what’s next.

Jeff Henderson:

It’s new, and new usually comes with discomfort. It’s a new workout, it’s a new golf swing. It just feels awkward. It feels, “I don’t feel it. This doesn’t feel what I’m used to,” right? And so what we’re used to is very comfortable. So for example, I mean, I’m coming up on two years of this. This has been one of the most uncomfortable two years, and that doesn’t mean bad. It means I’m just trying out new muscles. This is the first time in my entire career I haven’t gotten paid every two weeks.

Mark Cole:

Crazy.

Jeff Henderson:

Because you don’t know where the money’s coming from, right?

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Jeff Henderson:

I mean, you’re working for recurring revenue and all that kind of stuff, which is great, but it’s like, “Oh my goodness. Well, that’s uncomfortable, trying something new.” Even little things like, “Okay, I got to figure out how to get health insurance,” I mean, it’s those practical things like, “Oh gosh, how do I do it?” and that makes you uncomfortable. So this whole discomfort is an issue, but discomfort is the price we pay for growth. I have grown more in these two years. And what I’ve discovered is some things that I thought were really difficult, they were difficult but they weren’t as difficult as I thought they were, and I gave myself the opportunity to figure it out.

In fact, to go back to the thought converters, one of the thought converters I had was, the bad thought was, “I’ve never done this before.” Well, the thought converter I had to go was, “Hey, I’ve never done this before. What am I learning?” And so to have more of a learning mindset versus a perfectionist mindset. So for me, that was so helpful to do that. So this whole idea of discomfort, yeah, I want to invite that into. Now, if you’re a listener and you haven’t been uncomfortable for a while, there’s probably a lack of growth that you’re sacrificing right now. Obviously, the last two, three years have been uncomfortable for all of us. There’s that, but then how are you pursuing a discomfort, that growth? And growth just feels sometimes a little awkward.

Mark Cole:

So that one section right there, I’m going to look. If you’re not watching the podcast on YouTube, where are you? Where are you, man? Jeff’s looking sharp today. You’re missing it. But I’m going to look right into the camera for those of you that are watching, and if you’re not watching, you’re listening, just imagine me looking you in the eyes. That one section on discomfort is worth the entire book being given to your team if you’re leading them to a transitional element. If you’re leading them to something greater than what they’re already accomplishing, if you’re trying to transform your team, your company, you’re instilling a passion for the future, that one part of this book will be worth you getting it for your entire team.

And so I’m going to challenge you today. I believe in this. Jeff’s one of our thought leaders. I’m going to challenge you. I want you to just pick up the book. We’re going to give you a way to do that. In fact, I’m going to put our team on the spot. Go to maxwellpodcast.com/next. In our show notes, you’ll be able to see how to get a 15% discount on all of you that just have a vision for yourself. We’ll give you 15% on What’s Next for you that’ll get one copy of the book. But for those of you that’ll get it for your team, 5, 10, we’re going to give you a 20% discount on that and we’re going to make sure that you have the ability there, in our show notes, to not only think of yourself in going toward what’s next, but I want you to also challenge yourself to take your team through a process of what’s next. And to get these discounts, as always, use the code podcast when you click on that link, and it’s going to be something that will really impact you.

I’m going to say one more thing, Jeff, then I’ve got one more question for you, and then we’ll close with whatever else you’d like to say about the book. I’ll never forget as long as I live your impact in my life. We’ve talked about that, I’ve shared a little bit that on the podcast. I stand here today because of your input in my life. I’ll also never forget the day that John looked at me and said, “We need Jeff to be a part of our thought leaders on Maxwell Leadership.” And I don’t know how impacting that was for you. You’ve told me it was very, but I won’t put that words in your mouth. But for me, a guy that had seen it on a personal level impact in helping what’s next, then to be able to say now, we get to represent that book, that message, that author within the Maxwell Leadership ecosystem is one of the greatest things.

What many of you may not know is Jeff has this incredible ability to help synthesize into statements what you’re really trying to communicate. I’ll never forget, I was wrestling with my leadership team on what is next for Maxwell Leadership. We were called the John Maxwell Company and we were like, “How do we make sure that what we are doesn’t change but only expands into what is next?” And you said, “Let me tell you here why.” You said, “Because everyone deserves to be led well.” I wore a shirt yesterday with that on the back of it.

Jeff Henderson:

Wow.

Mark Cole:

Today, I lead an organization with that as our mantra. Today, I will finish this podcast with a challenge that says, “Because everyone deserves to be led well.” There is this incredible ability that you have to make yourself accessible to your readers, to your listeners, and to the people you’re sitting right across the table from, and one of the ways you do that is you put your cell phone in your book what you were known for, the For book. And I thought, “Jeff, I’ve helped John write a lot of book. I’ve never put his cell phone in there. What are you thinking?” And you explained it to me, and it was exactly that, “Mark, I don’t believe this message is just for a book. This message is to be lived out.” And then I look at the back of this book and Jeff, you’ve done it again. You put your cell phone at the back of the book. What are you doing? Why is that your what is next decision in your book?

Jeff Henderson:

Well, it’s been so great because people… I get a couple of texts today and just, they’re telling, “Hey, here’s what I’m learning. Here’s what our organization’s doing.” It’s been so encouraging. And I learned a principle from David Salyers, my boss at Chick-fil-A, “The more personable, the more remarkable.” So the more personable you are, the more remarkable the impact that you can have on people. And there has to be systems and I get all that. But another principle I learned there was we want to grow a small company. We want to grow as big as we can. And this is a multi-billion dollar company, but we don’t want to lose the small company feel. And fortunately for me, Mark, I don’t sell millions of books.

Mark Cole:

Yet, yet.

Jeff Henderson:

Yet, yet, yet, yet. But it’s just great for me to hear real life. Somebody sent me a picture of, it was a real estate company in Maryland. They were going through the For book and they ordered Chick-fil-A for lunch. They wanted to get all that together. It’s just an opportunity for me to go. There are real people out there, they’re trying to do great things, and I want to share with them that I’m really genuinely for them.

But that’s something I learned from you and John. One of my favorite moments in this two-year journey, we were down at the International Maxwell Certification earlier this year, and you announced the Maxwell Leadership rebrand and you had the team on the stage. Everyone was on the stage with the exception of one person. That was John Maxwell. This was about his legacy. Now, this is a what to do next for John and he’s seeing what to do next. Now, he could have said, “Why am I not on that stage?” And so Wendy took a picture of this moment. I don’t know if we can put it on the show notes. I’ll send it to you. I actually sent it to you. John is taking a picture of all of us on stage, and Wendy took a picture of John taking that picture.

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Jeff Henderson:

And Wendy said, “That’s one of my favorite moments in our two years, because here’s a founder where he’s saying, ‘It’s not about me. It’s about the future.'” And in that moment, that was one of those personable things that, yeah, we took the picture, but most of the world has never seen that moment, other than I sent it to you and some leadership team and I said, “This…” I’m telling you, that’s… I mean, I don’t know how to rank these moments. I mean, when John said, “I never had a clear vision. I kept moving forward,” that’s up there in the top three. I would say that and him taking a picture of us on that stage, that’s a part of kind of putting in your cell phone in the book, like, “Hey, I’m really for these people.” And for John to be taking a picture of that and keeping it, that just says something about the heart of the leader and it says something about the heart of all of us.

And that’s why I think trying to figure out what to do next for all of us, part of this isn’t what do I want to do next, it’s, “How can I add value and keep moving forward?” Because for me, in each of these moves, I could have stayed where I was, but I had to release it because there was a bigger calling at that moment, and that’s going to happen for all of us. So that’s one of the reasons I wanted to do that. I just wanted to show people I’m genuinely for them.

Mark Cole:

You know, John Maxwell Company has been John Maxwell for years and he’s let so many of us be cast members in that. And then John looked at us and he said, “I want a legacy brand. I want something that outlives anything that I’ve done, it becomes bigger than anything I’ve been able to accomplish, and I want our future to be bigger, better, brighter.” And Jeff, you came along and our future is bigger, better, brighter because Maxwell Leadership is Jeff Henderson, Jeff Henderson is Maxwell Leadership. In fact, we’ll put in the show notes how to book Jeff Henderson at your next event. You will see that in the show notes, how to get that. You’ll see in the show notes how to connect with Jeff to come work with your company, or somebody that has been empowered by Jeff to come work for your company.

Here’s why. It’s because you said it. In fact, it was in our show notes that you were supposed to say, “Everyone deserves to be led well.” Sorry about that. Just saw that. Which you should have, because here is what wakes us up at night, and I love wakes us up in the morning, keeps us up at night. I love what you said that, “I do that because I want to see the message lived out. I want to see this whole thing. What to do next is really about seeing the impact of what we’ve been doing go to the next level.” You said that. Just now, you said, “I could have stayed at every opportunity that I left. I could have stayed there and been quite comfortable, to be honest with you, and been quite successful,” because everything was growing as you were leaving. But there was something in you that said, “There is a next sense of responsibility of a next level of influence that is pulling me, drawing me.”

And that’s what we are doing here at Maxwell Leadership. That’s why we have been so gifted with people like Jeff that will help us realize that the world is hungry for powerful, positive change. And our goal for you with this podcast, with this book, What to Do Next is to read it, share it, apply it, because everyone deserves to be led well.