Maxwell Leadership Podcast: How Leaders Find Common Ground

Mark Cole:

Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. This is the podcast that adds value to leaders who multiply value to others. My name is Mark Cole, and today you’re going to learn how to bridge relational and perspective gaps between you and the people you lead. Are you ready? I know I am. I don’t want these gaps to minimize my effectiveness. In fact, in this episode, John Maxwell shares one of the principles from his book Leadershift. This principle is called the communication shift, which is the shift from directing people to connecting with people.

One key component of this shift is the ability to find common ground, and I think this tool in and of itself has the potential to take your leadership to the next level. You see, we have more in common than we have differences, but sometime our differences tend to take precedent over similarities, and I don’t need to tell you the obstacles and ripples that that can create between a work relationship and a teammate [inaudible 00:01:25] our leadership. So I’m excited. This valuable lesson will impact you and will impact me today. I’m certain that you will be better after this lesson. But first, if you’d like to download this episode’s bonus resource, which is a fill in the blank PDF that accompanies John’s lesson, just go to maxwellpodcast.com/commonground and click the bonus resource button. You can also watch this episode on YouTube by visiting maxwellpodcast.com/you tube. That’s it for now. Here is John C. Maxwell.

John Maxwell:

The next lesson I want to teach on Leader shifting is shifting from directing to connecting. And I call this the communication shift. And I love this lesson too, because I think that if I can help you Leadershift in this area, it’s going to be pretty amazing how much you’re going to grow and how much you’re going to develop. So let’s talk about this. First of all, this was not a natural shift for me. In fact, of the shifts that I talk about in Leadershift, almost all of them were not natural.

The difference between directing and connecting, let me compare it for a moment. Directing is kind of authoritative, where connecting is collaborative. It’s a different mindset. Do I want to come across as an authority with you or do I want to come across as a person that wants to collaborate with you? Directing is all talking, whereas connecting is quite a bit of listening. Directing is top down. Connecting is side by side. When you direct people, you enlist them. When you connect with people, you empower them. Direction is more assuming. Connecting is more understanding. Directing gives answers. Connecting ask questions. Okay?

Directing is more my agenda. Connecting is more your agenda. When I direct, I’m standing on my ground. When I connect, I’m going to your ground. And this is a great Leadershift to make in your leadership. I think directing is mostly all about me, and I think connecting is a lot more about you. So how do we find common ground? So if we’re going to be connecting with people, we got to find common ground with them. That’s where it starts. My goal is always to find common ground with you. So how do I do that?

What’s needed to find common ground? Number one, humility. And when I speak of humility, let me say it in this context, let people know that you need them. There’s something very connecting when you go up to people, say, I need you, especially when it comes from a leader. And by the way, in the beginning, because I was directional, I was exactly the opposite. I never expressed to the people that I needed them. You know what? I thought they needed me. Back then it wasn’t, “My name is John and I’m your friend.” My back then it was, “My name is John and I’m Superman. And I’m just going to fly in and land right among you. And wow, I’m here. And be healed and be whole, and the whole process, and just kind of make everybody go to a higher level. And let me tell you something that worked until God gave me a bigger dream.

Now, here’s what happens. When God gives you a dream that is bigger than you, you have two choices. You can either become overwhelmed and give up. And that’s a possibility. Okay? You can just say, “Oh my gosh, this is way bigger than me. I got to give up.” So the choices are, I can either give up or I can get help, one of the two. And when the dream becomes big, all of a sudden, giving up wasn’t the option. So I said, I’ve got to get help. I’ve got to have people help me. So when somebody comes and tells me that they’re a self, the phrase, I’m a self-made man, when anybody tells me they’re a self-made man, I always look at them and say, “Oh, I’m so sorry. Oh, that’s so terrible. Oh.” It’s not the reaction they’re expecting. But what I’m saying is if you’ve made everything yourself, you haven’t made much. One is too small of a number to achieve greatness.

So today, when I look at what I see as my dream and my vision, my first response is, “I need you. I just got to have people. I’ve got to have more people.” And in the next few years, I need thousands, thousands of transformational trainers. Not hundreds. I mean, I need thousands. You say, “How many thousands?” I don’t know, maybe 20, 25 thousand transformational trainers. Now I’m just stopping here for a moment. I’m sowing seed right now, into you. I need you. I need every one of you to say, “Boy, I’d like to be a part of transformation. I’d like to be a transformational trainer.”

Now, it’s not for me to talk about that right now. I’m just casting the vision. But I just want you to know for what I want to accomplish, I don’t need ten, I don’t need a hundred, I don’t need five hundred, I need thousands of them. And I happen to believe that God will give them to me. I think that thousands will, once they see the challenge, and once we get the vision out there, and that’s again, that’s not for today, but it’s going to happen very soon. [inaudible 00:07:45] a whole bunch of people say, “Sign me up. I want to be a transformational trainer,” of which if you do that really good, you’ll graduate and become a transformational leader.

Oh yeah, we’re getting it ready. We’re getting ready. You don’t even know what it’s all about. But are you excited about it, huh? I mean, this is just mundane question for average people, but the right question for people like you, “Would just like to be a part of something a lot bigger than yourself, that really changed lives and made a difference?” But to do that, I need help. So there’s a sense of humility in this process of making this Leadershift.

The second thing is, if you’re going to really connect with people is, it’s curiosity, number two, and that is consistently asking people questions. The difference between my leadership in my thirties and my leadership now, is that I lead by asking questions. I used to lead by directing. Now I lead by asking questions. Again, I try to find them before I can lead them. I wrote a book a few years ago, Good Leaders Ask Great Questions. Wow, because they do.

So number three, if you want to go from directing to connecting, number three, it takes effort. In other words, you’ve got to go out of your way to connect with people. If you’re going to go find them on their ground, it takes a lot of energy and effort to do that. See, the connection question is, Who moves first? And the answer is, the connector moves first. You don’t wait for the other person to come to you. You start going into them immediately. So when somebody says, “John, it’s lonely at the top,” they’re not a connector.

Now, why is it lonely at the top? Because they didn’t take anybody to the top with them. And why are they at the top all alone? You need to get off the top and go down to where the people are, and bring them to the top with you. And that takes energy. That takes effort. That takes us leaving our position to go there and find the people and connect with them. So there’s a tremendous amount of effort in that process too.

Number four, to connect well, trustworthiness is essential. And to be a trustworthy leader is to be someone that people can count on. The greatest expression of your leadership maybe is when somebody comes and says, “I can count on you.” To have a leader that you can count on … And trustworthy doesn’t mean you’re perfect. Okay? We got to make sure we got that right. I don’t think people want a perfect leader. I think they want an authentic leader. An authentic leader isn’t perfect, but an authentic leader admits to the weaknesses and the problems, and does their best to fix them. They’re very open. They’re very transparent. And trustworthiness means that I can count on you.

Number five is generosity. Just be a generous person. Be the first to give. Be the first to care. Be the first to connect. Generosity is living outside of yourself. The success of my day is based on the seeds sow, not the harvest I reap. 98% of the people, the success of their day is by the harvest that they reap, become a seed sower. Don’t worry about the harvest. Can I tell you something? The harvest will take care of itself. Don’t worry about the harvest. You just sow seeds every day. My entire life, I’ve just sowed seeds, sow seeds. And what I’ve found is it’s become huge in my life. Now I’m reaping this incredible harvest, and I’ve never … I’m still just sowing seeds. I mean, if you’ll just sow seeds all your life, don’t worry your harvest will be pretty big.

Number six, if you want to connect with people, listening. The best way to find common ground is by being a listener. I love what Andy Stanley says. He said, leaders who don’t listen will eventually be surrounded by people who have nothing to say. Isn’t that powerful? They’ll eventually be surrounded by people who have nothing to say.

And the last connecting link, to go from a directing person to a connecting person, the last link is encouragement, which gives people oxygen for their soul. That’s what encouragement is. Just breathe into their soul by lifting them up, by encouraging them, by believing in them. My father is a great encourager, and I asked him one time, I said, “Dad, how do you know people need to be encouraged”. He said, “Oh, son, that’s simple. If they’re breathing, they need to be encouraged.” He said, “Now, son, if they’re not breathing, don’t waste your time. But if they’re breathing, they need to be encouraged.” And he was such a phenomenal example of that, of just encouraging people. And I just want you to, when you connect people … Well, let me just do a little survey. How many of you like to be encouraged? Okay, we do. We all like to be encouraged. There’s something about it.

When somebody is an encourager, when you see them coming, it just fills your heart with hope. Doesn’t it? And aren’t there other people when you see them walk into the room, you say, “Oh God, keep them away from me.” The closer they get to you, the more they suck life right out of you. Okay? Be an encourager. When you do that, when you encourage people, you become a great connector in life.

Mark Cole:

Hey, podcast family. Before we jump into today’s content, let’s talk about leading a team, and the added challenges of leading specifically a hybrid team. See, leading a hybrid team takes skill, confidence. It takes a lot of things in order to communicate effectively and ensure a productive and top-notch team, all while fostering your culture. And all of that takes time. Our friends at BELAY, the incredible organization that’s revolutionizing productivity, with their virtual assistants and bookkeepers, for growing businesses just like yours and mine. They know the demands on leaders all too well. So to help you fast track your growth as a leader, BELAY is offering their latest book, Lead Anyone From Anywhere. In this ebook, learn how to equip a hybrid workforce to be just as effective as, if not more than, a brick and mortar organization. To claim this offer, just text the word Maxwell to 55123 for your free copy today. That’s M-A-X-W-E-L-L to 55123. In no time, you’ll be back to doing what only you can do, growing your business.

Hey, I love Chris, I love how John, this standout statement, “There are more things that unite us than divide us.” And I think as we dig into this today, I’ve really thought through how many times I’ve had to make this shift. It seems like every positional change, that I have the natural tendency to go to directing, when really I know that connecting is a better shift for people in senior level positions.

Chris Goede:

Well, as you said early in your intro, there are a lot of things that differentiate us. And now more than ever, it does seem like in our culture, speaking of organizational cultures or teams we work in, that it’s contentious, it’s fractured. And what I love about this is that we have to look for it. To your point, sometimes we naturally, as you mentioned, you naturally may go back to a directing side of things. Some of that is easier for others than it may be for you. But you got to do it. You got to go look for it. The other thing it made me think about as we’re talking about this is John’s five levels of leadership. It’s it kind of my mantra. And he talks about the foundation for your influence as an individual really is found at level two. And he talks about people giving you the permission to lead them, because of building relationships. I think you can take the word relationships and connect, and interchange them.

Mark Cole:

I agree.

Chris Goede:

And before we dive into this, because I love the fact that John gave us seven, I don’t know about you, I can’t get through all seven of these, but if I just work on one or two of them, but he gave us seven ways to find common ground with people that are on our team. John has taught us for a long time, we’re going to believe in, we’re going to value people, and we’re going to unconditionally love them. And if that’s the case, we’ve got to find this common ground. So he starts off by talking about, hey, the difference between directing and connecting. I’m going to pick two of them, and I just want you to respond to them, okay, that stood out to me.

Mark Cole:

Okay.

Chris Goede:

The first one he says, directing is really a top down. It’s really almost like somewhat of an authority, but hierarchy kind of thing. Versus connecting is, we’re doing this together. We’re side by side. Talk about that in your leadership, and then being under John’s kind of tutelage, how you’ve learned to lead that way as well.

Mark Cole:

I think a lot of times you see leaders that use their position to power through their agenda or power their wishes or directives on people. My position, it’s my, it’s kind of like the parent that looks at the kid and says, “Because I said so.” You know?

Chris Goede:

Yeah, that’s right.

Mark Cole:

I remember a time where, John has told this story many times, he’s told it on this podcast, to where John was sitting in a restaurant in Atlanta. Somebody come up to him and said, “Hey, John, I’m such and such name, and I’m a new employee. I work for you.”

Chris Goede:

That’s right. [inaudible 00:18:29]

Mark Cole:

And John said, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, sit down right here. You don’t work for me. You work with me.” I spend a lot of time Chris, because I think the common language of a leader, especially a directing leader, is I, I, I. I want y’all. This is what I want. This is what I’ve been thinking. And I work hard to eliminate when I’m giving directives and go, we. This is what we need to do.

Chris Goede:

That’s good.

Mark Cole:

This is our vision. This is what we can do together. And I think really challenge yourself as a leader to listen to your language, because you may want to think that you’re a collaborative leader, but your language, your words really matter. We teach that in multiple [inaudible 00:19:16]. I think it’s really important here. I think top-down leadership can come from a pure place. It’s my responsibility. Most recently, I’ve been leading our organization and I felt for a while that what I wanted us to accomplish was all my responsibility. Or I have thought in certain times, shortfalls in our progress is my responsibility. And I think that’s good. That’s noble. But I also think it can be an Achilles heel because you don’t let others feel the responsibility of, we are here, not I am here. I’m going to single-handedly, get us out. So I think there’s some noble reasons people feel top down. It’s high responsibility, high sense of ownership. But I think it can be a detriment too, because it doesn’t let others feel that weight with you.

Chris Goede:

Yeah. What I love about what you just said is if you … Yes, as leaders, we got to take responsibility. We’re not saying leaders, you’re not responsible. You are. You do have to carry the weight of that. But what I love about what you said is, if you are assuming it’s I, and it’s my weight, and it’s this, you then return. Right? And you go, “I want us to do this.” And I think that shift of using that language, we is so strong. Imagine if [inaudible 00:20:29] leader, if you’re walking alongside your team and they’re like, “Hey, I work for this lady.” No, no, no, no, we work together. We’re on a team together. Imagine that language, together. I remember when John said it to me for the first time, to your point, you’re just like, “John, who are you kidding?” Right?

Mark Cole:

Exactly.

Chris Goede:

What is going on here? So I love that. One more kind of just quick response out of you. John says, “Directing is really my agenda, it’s about me, versus connecting is it’s about your agenda.” Unpack that for us [inaudible 00:20:58]

Mark Cole:

Well, I love this one too. I talked in a podcast that for a long time I worked, and it was John’s agenda. And then it became our agenda. And then it came back to my agenda. And that’s from a vision standpoint. I think so many of us are so challenged with political leaders right now, church leaders right now, because they’re so caught in their agenda, that they forgot they serve the people. Again, I think there is … Understand this. John’s teaching this because he’s teaching from his book Leadershift. I’m holding it up for the YouTube viewers right now. He’s teaching from this. Understand, he’s not saying one is wrong and one is right. He’s saying that there are times in our leadership that we need to shift and effectively lead, to effectively lead what’s going on.

And I think it’s okay from a vision standpoint to say, “Hey, this is what I believe we need to do.” But then very quickly, you’ve got to get that into our agenda. Let them see their face in the flag is what I’ve said on a previous podcast. So I do believe that the best leaders, the most effective leaders, the leaders that are more sustainable in their influence are the leaders that have figured out how to make the people’s agenda their agenda.

Chris Goede:

That’s good.

Personal Growth Day:

Hey, podcast listeners. How would you like to be equipped with the tools to continue your personal growth and refine your strengths and weaknesses, all while being surrounded by other growth-minded leaders like yourself? You may have heard of Personal Growth Day. For our second time ever, Maxwell Leadership is hosting this one day event on March 13th in Orlando, Florida. This event is designed to dig deeper into who you are and how you tick, so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you’re unable to attend Personal Growth Day in person, we also offer virtual access to the event. If you would like to participate in a one-of-a-kind experience and stand shoulder to shoulder with growing leaders who will sharpen your skills and equip you to create powerful positive impact, go to maxwellleadership.com/personalgrowthday to learn more or get your ticket. We’ll see you there.

Chris Goede:

I love what you said about how you can say that it’s, “Hey, I have this vision,” but we, you immediately make that shift. And I think if you just become just aware of that leaders, and as you’re communicating, you may not even be leading a team, maybe in the community, maybe it’s your family, just be aware of that. And I think it’ll help you as you begin to connect with them.

So what I’d like to do is we’ll jump into two or three of the seven ways that John talks about common ground. And the first one I want to talk about, this is something that we know a guy that [inaudible 00:24:01] talked about wrote a book, Good Leaders Ask Great Questions, is to really be curious. And I want to unpack this a little bit around the thought of, “Man, how do we ask more questions and assert less? How do we understand their why, and don’t get caught up in the what?” And the only way to do that is you don’t have to agree on everything, but the only way to do that is to ask questions. And you do this. You’ve seen it from your mentor for a long time. As you’re leading now, I’ve even seen it more. And talk about the importance of that, so that you’re creating that common ground with the team.

Mark Cole:

For years, I’ve noticed, and maybe it was writing the book, Good Leaders Ask Great Questions, because I asked John. I said, “At my age,” he’s 20 years, my senior or a little bit more, and I go, “at my age, did you ask questions like you ask now?” And he says no, but as long as I’ve observed his leadership from this angle [inaudible 00:24:53] last 13, 14 years, he asks great questions. I asked him one day, I said, “Is it the book Good Leaders Ask Great Questions that prompted you to be so inquisitive in meetings?”

Chris Goede:

Good question.

Mark Cole:

And he said, “Yes, it absolutely was the research of that. And it was maturity.” He said, “When I was young, I thought I had to have all the answers. I was always the answer man. Half my answers were not correct. But I always had an answer.” He said, “As I’ve gotten older, I’ve found that very rarely do I have the best answer.” Now that struck me. And he’s been challenging me I would say, I think I’ve admitted on this podcast, that he’s been challenging me for several years to ask better questions, that I would get to answers quicker, that I would get collaboration much better, and that I would get a much greater level of buy-in if I would ask questions, because people feel like they contributed to the final decision. But I don’t feel like I’ve done a great job of it, Chris. But recently what I have discovered is that vision is very much an interpretation of where one sits from their particular perspective.

Sure, sure.

Chris Goede:

And so you’ll notice, and you mentioned this just a moment ago, before we started recording, I have started asking questions. “Hey, what did you just hear me say? How do you interpret what we’re talking about right now?” And I have really been intentional, because I think it’s critical when you are having a U-turn part in your organization to make sure people are understanding at each leg of the way. And the only way to know if somebody understands is not a head nod, is not a, “Okay, good meeting,” is not a word of affirmation. The only way to really see if somebody understands is get them to repeat what they just heard.

Yeah. And I’ve heard you also say, just a couple more questions to add to this is like, “Do you think we’re heading down the right path with this conversation? Would you go a different …” And you begin to have those questions, so that they not only are answering what they recall, but what they are thinking as well. And so again, it is definitely curiosity and it’s helping leaders connect and they get the buy-in there.

Mark Cole:

Yeah, before we get off of this one, one of the things I love about John is he will come in and say, “What do I need to know?” And I’ll give him what I believe that he needs to know. And then he’ll listen and say, “Is there any more context?” Another question, I give him more context. And then he makes a decision. This is the route that we need to go. But after he does that, he follows it back up. You’ve heard me say this before.

Chris Goede:

Oh yeah.

Mark Cole:

You’ve seen him say this before. He’ll go, “What am I missing?” He’ll give the decision and then ask another question, which I think is just brilliant.

Chris Goede:

That’s great. Yeah, I love that. So this leads me into the next one, which actually could be the same one, because it takes effort to do what we just talked about. It really does. You got to be intentional about it, and it takes effort. What John’s talking about here in effort is who moves first. And when there’s a gap and you need to connect with people, it’s not the responsibility of the other person. It is the responsibility of you. Right?

Mark Cole:

Yeah, that’s right.

Chris Goede:

Of you, period. You need to move first. And when you think about this, you’ve got to be able to go and to be able to connect with them. And that takes effort, because it’s not easy.

Mark Cole:

And I think the effort, again, goes back to the person who’s listening to this, or the person who wants to grow in influence.

Chris Goede:

That’s right.

Mark Cole:

It’s not always the positional leader.

Chris Goede:

That’s right. That’s why, yeah, we’re very careful about that. I love that.

Mark Cole:

We’re very careful about that.

Chris Goede:

I love it.

Mark Cole:

If you want to grow in your influence, then it’s your responsibility to put effort in. Not if you want to be respectful of your leader, not if you’re wishing somebody would notice that you want to be connected with. You’ve got to put forth the effort. And so often in teams, it’s always easy to put the effort, responsibility on someone else. Well, they, they’re the ones that offended me. They’re the ones that’s, that’s the leader. They’re the ones that X, Y, Z. And we, as [inaudible 00:29:04] to find common ground, go first. Put the effort in.

A good friend of mine and yours, Kevin Myers, he’s a great communicator here in Atlanta. He talks about giving the bigger side of the bagel to your significant other. And I love this, Stephanie and I reference it all the time. And he talks about he and his wife used to go to Starbucks. They couldn’t afford a bunch. So they would get one bagel and they would split it. And he’d always look at it and get the bigger side, because he was the man. I mean, he’s a growing boy.

Chris Goede:

He eats more, yeah.

Mark Cole:

He’s a growing boy. And he said one time his wife just went, “Why do you always get the bigger side of the bagel?” And he went, “Because I think I’m supposed to have that.” And she didn’t really want it. She just noticed that he [inaudible 00:29:49]

Chris Goede:

Every time he did it.

Mark Cole:

And he made a decision at that point. He said, “I am for the rest of my life going to give her the bigger side of the bagel. She may not even finish it. I may end up hungry after my side of the bagel, but I’m going to give the bigger side of the bagel.”

Chris Goede:

I love that.

Mark Cole:

Stephanie and I, my wife and I, have used that over and over again in our relationship. Well, here’s what John is saying right here. Go first. Give the bigger side. One more illustration on this, it goes back to one of the most impacting questions that Angela Ahrendts, former CEO of Burberry and former vice president of Apple. She’s on stage with John one day and he said, “Hey, what’s the greatest life lesson you learned?” And she said, “I learned it from my dad. Give 60 and take 40.” Well give the effort.

Chris Goede:

That’s so good.

Mark Cole:

And always go first in the effort, is what John’s saying.

Chris Goede:

I love that. And I would encourage you as you do that, don’t let any emotions of the situation detract you from continuing to move forward. Right? Continue to make that effort. And do it authentically.

Mark Cole:

Yes, exactly.

Chris Goede:

Right? I think John mentioned this.

Mark Cole:

Don’t do it because you’re checking the box.

Chris Goede:

Yeah, don’t do it.

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Chris Goede:

And the statement that I love, one of our facilitators shared, is that authenticity is a trust accelerator. And if you want to accelerate to close that gap, by the way, it’s your responsibility, then be authentic while you’re doing it, because when we’re not authentic, it just screams. They know it. Well, the last one I want to talk on is probably something you and I, well we probably need to work on a little bit. And that is the listening.

And I love this quote in here by Andy Stanley that John mentioned where he says, “Leaders who don’t listen will end up surrounded by people who have nothing to say.” That is so important as we are looking for common ground with people, as you’re leading a team. How much of that has become a more of a developed skill that you’ve had to do in order to connect? How much was natural to you? How much do you lean on that to connect with people? Talk about that a little bit.

Mark Cole:

Well, I believe Chris that, going back to the last point you and I covered, it is effort. I don’t think that’s natural. I think that some people are more trustworthy and are able to get to that level a little bit better than others. In other words, we connect, there’s a relatability there. We have common interest. We have common goals. It makes it a little bit easier to get traction in this area. But I’ll have to tell you that I have never had a deep, meaningful relationship that lasted that it was not effort, that it was not intentional, that there wasn’t a very calculated way. It goes back to, again, trustworthy, but it goes back to the trust meter that we’ve talked about before on here, our ability to be very clear on what connection is going to be about. And both parties get to set the framework on this.

Chris Goede:

Yeah, I love that.

Mark Cole:

And then you work. And you put discipline and you put effort, again to perhaps overuse that, you put effort, intentionality into it, to get to that level. If you don’t put that in and you rely on a natural connection-

Chris Goede:

[inaudible 00:32:56].

Mark Cole:

… you won’t succeed.

Chris Goede:

I’m going to put you on the spot as we kind of wrap up. Okay, you ready?

Mark Cole:

Ready.

Chris Goede:

I’m going to read the seven real quick. And what I’d love for you to do is to share with our listeners all around the world, and by the way, thank you for listening and watching on YouTube. I know some of you might be like, “I probably need to listen to Chris and Mark instead of look at them.” That’s okay.

Mark Cole:

That’s true.

Chris Goede:

We’re good with that. And I want you to tell the listeners which one comes natural to you. And then which one do you have to work on? We talk about growth around here as an organization. And that’s just part of what we do. John will be the same way. He would list these, but he’d say, “You know what? I got to really kind of work on these.” So John says, you have humility, curiosity, effort, trustworthiness, generosity, listening and encouragement. So as you wrap up and you close this lesson for us today, because I don’t want you to ask me mine, talk to the audience a little bit about these, and what comes naturally, and what you got to work on.

Mark Cole:

Yeah, so let me give you two and two. Two comes naturally [inaudible 00:33:59]

Chris Goede:

That wasn’t the.

Mark Cole:

I know.

Chris Goede:

Did you listen to me?

Mark Cole:

It was one. It was one. I wasn’t listening. And by the way, that is one [inaudible 00:34:05].

Chris Goede:

I love it.

Mark Cole:

So I will tell you that encouragement is a big one for me, I love to encourage people, and effort. And effort comes because of my frame of reference growing up. I had to earn love. I had to work for salvation. I had to do some things there that really made effort. I don’t know how natural it is.

Chris Goede:

But it became such a developed skill.

Mark Cole:

It became such a developed skill. So I wanted to say that because I wanted to give two. I know I broke the rules.

Chris Goede:

Yeah, you’re fine.

Mark Cole:

I wanted to do that because I do think there is one natural and one that feels natural. And putting forth hard effort, I don’t feel like I’m doing anything well if there’s not hard effort. The one that is probably the most difficult for me would be listening. My mind works such that I’m always anticipating something. And when I’m having a conversation, I’m anticipating your final point and I’m anticipating my response. And so listening is extremely hard for me.

Chris Goede:

That’s good.

Mark Cole:

So I do think there is one that’s natural, relationship connecting, I’m sorry, encouragement. And then I think that there is one that is a learned natural.

Chris Goede:

That’s good.

Mark Cole:

And then I think there is … And I think that’s true for several people that would be listening or watching today. And then there is one that is very difficult, which is listening. I do want to know yours.

Chris Goede:

I knew you were coming back to me.

Mark Cole:

Yep, I’m coming back. So I want to know which one you feel like comes most natural and you can give two too. I did. And then one that’s the most difficult.

Chris Goede:

I think it’s interesting as you think about that because as we develop and as we grow, I think some of them can change. Yours are deep-rooted. One of them is deep-rooted. Right?

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Chris Goede:

The workspace one. And I think living in an environment we talk about here and under John, for me, the one that comes the most, I guess the easiest for me, is curiosity. And that is really just because I learned at an early age from John that if you want to connect with people, begin to be curious about what they’re interested in. Right?

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Chris Goede:

You know that.

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Chris Goede:

So you listen immediately for something they’re talking about and you go, “Man, I want to really know more about that. So Mark, tell me what it’s like to lead multiple companies and to follow John around.” My second, since I’m cheating like you, would be encouragement. And I think that-

Mark Cole:

Yeah, I would agree with that.

Chris Goede:

[inaudible 00:36:35]. At times I think one of the ones that’s hard for me, and I really got to work at it, because I get blinders on at times and stay pretty structured, so for me, at times, I have to really work on the effort, because Sarah, my wife would say, I can close shop and move fast in certain situations. And I’m like, “Ooh, wait a minute. There’s a gap there, Chris.” Right?

Mark Cole:

Yep.

Chris Goede:

And to John’s point, even to the quote that you mentioned earlier with Angela, like 60% I should be giving the effort, and I don’t always necessarily do that. And so I think the effort would be the one that I have to work on the most.

Mark Cole:

That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing. I’ll tell you this. We are being very intentional right now of inviting our podcast family to a day about growth. It’s called the Maxwell Leadership Personal Growth Day, and it’s on March the 13th in Orlando. Or you certainly can do virtual with the same event. I want you to go to maxwellleadership.com/personalgrowthday. You’ll see several different ways to engage. You’ll get to see some of the speakers and some of the deliverables that you’re going to get from that day, and I want you to get that. And so the reason I felt like saying that today Chris, was you and I were kind of assessing ourself there at the end. And there’s nothing greater for us as leaders to do than to assess ourself, to see where we are deficient in our leadership, in our growth, and then invest in that personal growth.

Some of the rest of you really love this shift that we’re talking about today, this shifting from directing to connecting. And there’s nine other shifts in this book, so we’re going to put this book in the show notes. You’ll be able to click that. If you click that and buy through that link, we’ll give you a 15% discount. Just use the promo code podcast and you’ll enjoy that. I want to close today like I close every day. But let me tell you this, I close with this, both because I love to interact with our podcast listeners, our family, but I also close with a podcast comment because I want you to make a podcast comment. I want you to go to your podcast player and I want you to rate us. I’d prefer five star, but if it’s not a five star, I want to know why it’s not a five star.

Those comments and those things help keep us relevant and keep us at the top of the list, being able to impact many new people every single week. If you’re new, we’re so glad you’re here. Hey, today’s listener comment is from Lareto. I love what Lareto said. Number one, it was from how to gather great people around you. That’s a podcast that we did recently. You’ll be able to go take advantage of that. Lareto, you talked about our state of the culture and our culture champion award recognition. And just a few weeks ago, we were able to do that for 2023.

Here’s what Lareto said, “Great show. I will be copying the state of the culture address and the culture champion award recognition. I’m in the process of starting a media production company and building up the team. This is helping me a lot.” Lareto, that’s why we do what we do. See, we believe here that the world needs powerful positive change from me and you as leaders. And so we do that. We embrace in this podcast because everyone deserves to be led well.