I Want a Seat at the Table

Chris Goede:

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Chris Goede:

So dive in and see what’s happening in Orlando, where the possibilities for business travel are unbelievably real.

Perry Holley:

Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Executive podcast, where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holly, a Maxwell leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:

And I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining. As we get started, I want to encourage you to go to MaxwellLeadership.com/Podcast. There you can see. Click on this lesson, you can see our show notes, and also you’ll see a form. And this is a place where maybe you’re having a leadership challenge. Maybe you want Perry and I to kind of dig into it and talk about it. It’s what we do.

Chris Goede:

We just don’t tell the people that we’re getting the lessons from. They just happen to be some of our corporate coaching clients, and maybe it’s even our own personal team and journey. But, man, we would love to hear from you. Comment. How is this impacting you, your team, whatever it might be. But I’d encourage you to go and leave us a note there. Well, today’s topic is titled, I want a seat at the table.

Perry Holley:

Pound your fist when you say, I want a seat at the table.

Chris Goede:

And I think maybe you might be talking about our podcast table. And Perry, probably from a coaching call, someone says they want to be on this podcast. And so I’m going to step aside, let that individual come in here. But, man, I want to seat at the table. I hear a lot of people that aspire this, especially different generations, look at this a little bit differently and immediately come in and go, I want to seat at that leadership table. And so I’m imagining that this is coming from some conversations you’ve had with emerging leaders or maybe even executive leaders inside some of the companies we’re working with.

Perry Holley:

It does. It comes up from time to time. But recently I thought, wow, this has happened more than once. I should capture that as a thought. That, and I felt the same way coming up. I was a young leader, and maybe I felt overlooked or not appreciated or not invited to speak or they’re having meetings down the hall. Why am I not in the room? Why are they making policy or strategy decisions? Why am I not considered? And so I did have a coaching client ask me this, and she was very adamant that our coaching relationship, that’s what she wanted to come out of it. I want to become the person that has a seat at the table.

Perry Holley:

And I was going to ask you, do you think, is it title? Is it tenure? Is it influence? Is it something else? Of course I have a point of view, but I’d like to hear yours first.

Chris Goede:

Yeah, we all desire that, and I love that. And you want people that have that right. Oftentimes we’ll say, hey, I want to be able to kind of slow people down a little bit versus give them a good old kick and try to get them going. So you want people to have that aspiration. One of my things is, I love that you have that aspiration, but what are the actions that are behind that aspiration? Are you speaking up? Are you stepping up? What’s the motive behind it?

Perry Holley:

We’re going to talk a little bit about this motive matter.

Chris Goede:

Are you posturing? Right. For like, I want to have a seat at the table. AnD so I think the more that you can begin to branch out from just what is your day to day job? I often will say, well, my day job is this. However, maybe 95% of my time is consumed doing something else, sitting at different tables. And I looked back at it when you posed this question. I was thinking, that’s interesting. And I think it’s just, how do I add value? We have this phrase around here, right? Add value to leaders so that they can multiply value. How are you adding value to people? And then, you know what? If you’re not being invited at the table, don’t allow that to then deter.

Chris Goede:

I’m getting way off on the topic, but don’t allow that to deter how you’re continuing to do your job and add value to people, and then eventually you’re going to get invited to that table.

Perry Holley:

Well, truly, I know when I first was thinking I deserved a seat. I didn’t. I was just thinking that was the next step. My motive mattered. I didn’t want to actually add value to the conversation. I wanted to be seen. It was an ego thing, probably. So I appreciate the leader I had at the time said, you need to work on some things, and you’ll have a seat at that table, but if you don’t work on these things, you won’t, but you’re not ready to be at that table.

Perry Holley:

So I came up with four or five things. I thought I’d throw them at you and see what you think. But number one, I just think that sometimes. And then this leader I was talking with, they had a title, a position, and they thought that entitled them to be at the table. And I thought, focus on influence, not on title. All kinds of titles are in that room, but it’s really the influential people. And I think about when I was pushing my leader that I became a first line manager. But I realized at the table very quickly that one of the senior salespeople that I was leading, I might have the title.

Perry Holley:

He had the influence. I say whatever I’d say, they’d look to him. So even though I was at the table, I was there by my title. He was there through influence, and he had all the buy in from the people. I had nothing. So I’m thinking, what are your thoughts on about influence over your title to get at the table? If you have influence, they invite you to the table.

Chris Goede:

Right.

Perry Holley:

Your title didn’t mean a whole lot.

Chris Goede:

We base everything that we do off of the foundation of the five levels of leadership, and it goes back to that. You’re on different levels with different people all the time, and you need to be aware of that. So you look at a certain table inside the organization, which, by the way, let me just throw this in there. Be careful what you ask for. You didn’t know where I was going. But there are some tables you might not want to be a part of once you get. But you look at the table, a table, a place where you want your influence to be, and you go, how can I do a better job of with the right motive, adding value to the people that are at that table, projects that that table is solving opportunities that could, that table then could potentially uplift that idea and feed that to them again, do your job first. We always talk about that, right.

Chris Goede:

But then, if your leader is at that table, how are you helping that leader prepare for that table? You got to begin thinking about, to your point, not just because I feel entitled to be sitting at the table. But how do I really, with the right motive and the proper heart, go about saying, I really want to add value to the organization, to my leader or a leader and that table, and how do I begin influencing that? And I think when you do that, whether it’s cross functionally throughout the organization, whether it’s directly in kind of your vertical, it doesn’t matter. It’s all about influence. And I think that’s how you have.

Perry Holley:

To look at it. And you’re right, I think go to the second one. Number two, I said was, you said inbound to the organization is that, are you taking a big picture point of view? Are you taking a big picture view of what’s going on? Or are you the leader that protects your own territory? And the last thing they want to come to the leadership table to make policy or strategy or vision decisions around the organization is somebody that’s going to come in to protect their own space. And so are you taking a big picture point of view? Do you understand what the company or organization is trying to accomplish? Do you understand where we’re going? Do you understand how we solve customer problems? And yes, your department, your division, your group has something to do with that, and you need to do that well. But do you know what the bigger picture is? And once you start having that strategic viewpoint, people start to want to hear from that.

Chris Goede:

It’s the illustration analogy of different hats that you have to wear. Inside our world, you and I serve on a team that is called our corporate Solutions Group. And so our day job is how do we train, facilitate, coach, add value to people in corporate America. But you also, and myself as well, serve in other areas inside the enterprise, doing other things. This podcast is not directly tied, it is tied to the Enterprise. We want to add value to people all around the world, and this would be a way to be able to do that. And so you have to be able, when you think about this and have the big picture, I often like to use just the word picture, the analogy of taking a hat off. I’ll have conversations all the time being like, okay, I need to take my corporate solutions hat off as we talk about this because I have some sacred cows over here that I don’t want you to touch.

Perry Holley:

But meanwhile, am I one of those.

Chris Goede:

Yeah, no, you’re not. They may not be a sacred cow to the Enterprise view, and so you have to be able to separate that, right? And so there’s an emotional maturity that you have to go through and be ready for as well, to be able to have a seat at the table.

Perry Holley:

Yeah, it kind of leads in number three. I said don’t make it about you. Yeah, this kind of maybe goes back a little bit. The motive matters. Is that why do you want a seat at the table? Is it about you or is it about your importance? Is it about your status? Is it about your ego? Or are you actUally, I think you said it well. Are you trying to add value to the team, to the organization? And it’s not about me personally.

Chris Goede:

Yeah. Nowadays we hear a lot about why do people join the organizations? Why do they stay? And oftentimes now in the top three, we’re hearing about purpose and we’re hearing about what’s the mission of the organization. And so I think to your example here and talking about you can’t make it about you. If you’re really inside that movement, inside that organization because of the purpose of what they’re doing, because of the mission of the organization, then it’s easier for you to be able to not make it about you if you’re not in alignment with that. First of all, you might not be in the right organization. You might need to be looking for something else. But if you’re not, then what’s going to happen is it’s going to compound those feelings of frustration you have or it’s going to negatively impact your ability to have a seat at the table because you’re going to have a bias that’s so strong that you won’t be able to get off of because you don’t necessarily agree with where the organization is going. Because there are times I know from my experience and you as well, that have sat at many tables where it may have not been the right decision for your team, but it was the right decision for the Enterprise.

Chris Goede:

And, oh, by the way, then as a leader, you’ve got to now go back and say not they decided. We decided as a leadership team. We decided at the table. This was best for the organization. That’s a whole nother podcast that we could talk about. Because now you have to take this team and now you have to represent this team, who, by the way, is very bought into a specific task, and you have to be able to represent this leadership team at the table or the team at the table and say, this is, is what we decided to do. And now all of a sudden you become part of that. And then the team looks at you and go, well, I thought you were on our team.

Chris Goede:

So anyway, so there’s all kinds of dynamics that come into that. But to your point, and the third point here is, yeah, you can’t make it about you.

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Perry Holley:

Number four at the table, you have to have a point of view. If you’re not the type of person that has a point of view, this comes up all the time. I noticed that when I was leading teams, people would show up and wait to hear my point of view, and then they would make their point of view a lot like my point of view, and I stopped that. And we kind of joke about is that I have a point of view, but I want to hear what you think first. And so if you’re expecting to come to the table, you need to have a point of view about what the group is trying to decide, and it could be in disagreement. I have another idea and all that, and I think if you’re a strong leader, you invite dissension. We have a podcast on that. Are your people in your team, do they feel comfortable dissenting, disagreeing with you? But to your previous point, once we argue it out, we make a decision.

Perry Holley:

You don’t necessarily have to agree, but we are in alignment. And when you go out to your team, we are in alignment. You don’t say, well, they decided something else. No, but you have to have a point of view when you come in that, do you see people? They want it at the table, but then they come and sit quiet. They don’t speak boldly. They don’t have an idea. They haven’t thought it through. And so I require everybody that comes to my team meeting, whatever this subject line, you need to come prepare with a point of view.

Perry Holley:

If you don’t have a point of view, you’re not required at the meeting. And if you miss more than two meetings, I don’t need you.

Chris Goede:

Where did Perry go? Well, two times in a row, he didn’t have anything to say, so he’s no longer with me.

Perry Holley:

I need you to have a point of view, even if it’s in dissension to mine.

Chris Goede:

There has to be tension at tables, at that level when you’re making your decision and to your point leaders, the right leaders will welcome it and need it, and they do want you to have a point of view. I love your. Again, just bring it back to light. The agreement versus the alignment. I think as you begin thinking about wanting a seat at that table, if you don’t have a point of view, you better start learning about what those problems or opportunities that they are deciding on, that they’re moving the needle so that you can become educated. We talk about you cannot give what you don’t have. Well, you can’t go in there, by the way, if you get a seat at the table to Perry’s point and you don’t add value in a conversation or two or three, they’re going to be like, why is Chris here? Versus. If you begin to gather a point of view and you begin to learn and to study and to read charts and say, you begin to get a little bit of a perspective and maybe your leader is at that table, maybe a peer is at that table and you say, hey, I know you guys were talking about this today.

Chris Goede:

I was reading this article. I just wanted to pass it along to you. You’re beginning to gain influence and show that you have knowledge in that area that may get you a seat at the table.

Perry Holley:

Fantastic. And then finally, number five, have a service mindset. Serve others, be humble, and never forget that your role at the table is to serve the team, serve the organization, not to serve yourself. And I love the idea that in Tim Elmore’s book, he talks about balancing confidence and humility. I want you to come into at the table, be confident, be bold, but be humble. Balance it with humility. If you’re all confidence, it’s arrogance. If you don’t have humility, if you’re all humility, you don’t speak up.

Perry Holley:

It’s all humility. It’s a little sheepishness. Nobody wants that either. So can you balance it? And you recall Tim teaching us that great mindset of go to the table and talk like you’re right, but listen like you’re wrong.

Chris Goede:

Exactly what I was thinking about. You say that all the time and it reminds me of that tag.

Perry Holley:

I think it’s beautiful. I thought, I’m going to be bold and confident. Talk like I’m right, but I’m going to listen like I’m wrong, which is the dose of humility. I’m pretty sure I’m right, but I could be wrong. So tell me how I’m wrong. People love that.

Chris Goede:

As we wrap up today, I love people that have the desire and the drive and the initiative to want to have a seat at the table. I want people like that on my team. I have that right. I think you should always have that. You should always continue to strive to grow. What we want to make sure is that you go about it the right way. And so you brought us five points here that I think are really good for those that have a desire to have a seat at the table to begin to think about. I also think a little bit about John’s 21 irrefutable laws of leadership.

Chris Goede:

The very first chapter in there is the law of the Lid. If you haven’t read that book, I would encourage you to do it. It’s foundational to your self development in regards to growing your leadership. And it brought me back to a statement that was just like, are you lifting lids? Are you a lid lifter to not only people on your team, but cross functionally, as we mentioned, and then more importantly, not more importantly, as equal to that table, the leaders that are at that table, are you lifting their lid with ideas, with networking and connections, with processes, with the organization as a whole? Like, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? What you want is you want to be lifting the lid to a point to where when they’re having a conversation, they go, man, I wonder what Perry thinks about. Like, I wonder how he would go about, like, I’ve seen him do some really cool things, lifting the lid, and you get them begin thinking about that. And that’s that influence piece. You want to be invited to the table because of your influence and the value that you’re adding, not because of your title. Too many people.

Chris Goede:

And by the way, I’ve seen people with titles at tables that no longer are invited to the table even though they have the title because they’re not adding any value to it. And then we have people around the table that don’t have certain titles, and people are like, well, why is so and so in there? Well, let me tell you why so and so they are. So just be thinking about that. It’s more than just being able to come in and sit down and say, I’m a part of that table. I got to see at the table, because it’s much more than that this.

Perry Holley:

May be a lesson leaders you want to teach to your younger generations. Chris mentioned that at the top, that the Gen Y, Gen Z especially are a little in a hurry sometimes to get to the table. But you don’t want to squash that. Like Chris said, you like that. I want you to want that. But you may need to grow into that. So it’s a great lesson maybe to teach others as they develop their influence, develop their authenticity, develop their ability to look at a bigger picture, they will be ready for the table one day. If you want the learner guide for this episode, or if you’d like to learn more about our offerings there, you can also learn about our other podcast family.

Perry Holley:

We have there others other offerings you can see there. If you’d like to leave us a question or a comment, do all of that at Maxwellleadership.com/podcast. We’d love to hear from you. We’re very grateful that you spend the time with us today. That’s all from the Maxwell Leadership executive podcast.