Executive Podcast #219: What Listener Type Are You?

We often think we are better listeners than we really are. We all need to work on being better listeners. This idea originated in the book, “Listen!: The Art of Effective Communication Kindle Edition” by Dale Carnegie & Associates.

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Perry Holley:

Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast, where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley, a Maxwell Leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:

And I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining. Just as a reminder, as we get started, if you want to learn more about our organization and some of our coaches and our facilitators that are in the field every day, helping organizations and leaders such as yourself with the issues and the topics that Perry and I talk about on a weekly basis, we would love to hear from you. I’d love for you to visit maxwellleadership.com/podcast. There you can fill out a form, our team will follow back up with you. You can see the download that learners guide that Perry has created for you, even if you just have a question, which we love-

Perry Holley:

Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Chris Goede:

Yes. Perry loves that because he creates all the content for us to discuss. We would love to do that, because what we do is we take the challenges and the opportunities that you’re facing and we take them and Perry is in the field. He’s working with leaders and we just give you realtime examples of what’s going on. And so we’d love to be able to do that for you. So again, maxwellleadership.com/podcast, there you can submit a form and let us know.

Well, today’s topic is what listener type are you? I think this is really interesting. This is actually something I hadn’t thought a lot of. And we talk a lot about personalities. When we lead people in understanding their personalities, we talk about how do they like to receive communication, different things about… I love this where you’re going with this, which is what listener type are you?

And I think I’m a good listener until I get home, my wife talks to me about that. But it’s something we all need to be better at, and as a leader, I would say that we don’t really do a good job listening. So talk to us a little bit about this title and where it came from.

Perry Holley:

Well, it’s easy to think we’re better listeners than we really are, but we all need to be working on it, like you said. But when I found this was in a Dale Carnegie book called Listen, and I was fascinated by… They had identified seven types of listeners and I thought typically the lesson would be, don’t be one of these. So we would say, “Don’t do this, don’t do that.” But the way we’ve been doing it in the workshop is saying, let’s say you’re talking, you’re trying to be heard, you want people to listen to you, but you run into one of these seven, what can you do? What should you do? You know you’re not going to be heard, so take it from that side. And of course don’t be any of these, maybe though, number seven, the engager video.

Chris Goede:

[inaudible 00:02:44] get to the last one.

Perry Holley:

And why don’t you tell them what those seven types are and we’ll get going.

Chris Goede:

So we’re going to jump in. I love this. I love this idea and I think as you’re listening to us or you’re watching us today on YouTube, I think you can probably identify some people around the table, around your team that have these. And our challenge would be to identify it internally in yourself. Do you have some of these habits? And to work through those. So the seven are The Preoccupied. It’s funny because as I go through this, I have images in my mind of people-

Perry Holley:

I didn’t put names out next to them-

Chris Goede:

You didn’t put names. The Out to Lunchers is the second one. The third one of what listener type are you is The Interrupters, and that one drives me crazy. Number four, The Whatevers. The fifth one is The Combatives, the sixth one is The Analysts. And then finally you give us a positive one here at the end. Number seven, The Engagers.

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Perry Holley:

Yeah. So let’s just start from the top and let’s do it. Say that The Preoccupied, so most of these you’ll get what they are by the title, or by the way they’re labeled. But this is the person that’s tapping their foot, they’re anxious, they’re looking around, they’re checking the clock, they’re just not engaged. They come across as rushed or hurried. They’re trying to get out the door, constantly looking around. You might know them as multi-taskers, they’re doing other things while you’re trying to talk to them. So I don’t know if I’m not asking you if any of these, especially if they’re in the room, Jake.

Chris Goede:

Jake. I was going to say we just threw him out of the bus.

Perry Holley:

So how do you handle it if you run into someone like that?

Chris Goede:

So you might ask with someone that is preoccupied, “Hey, is this a good time?: Or it’s funny because I’m even thinking about, as a parent with my children and technology, it’s the way they’ve grown up, it’s unintentionally they are on their phone or on their device and I’m having a conversation. And so you could say, “Hey, I need your undivided attention for just a moment. Let’s dial in here and focus this.” And then what I want, and this one is to begin with a statement that will get their attention, be very brief with it, but get to the bottom line quickly, because their attention span is extremely short. Again, reminds me of the different generations in the workforce. This is why this is so important and relevant to those that are leading people, because I can see different generations in these different types of listeners.

Perry Holley:

But it is okay to… I don’t think I ever thought about this. I’ve been talking to somebody and they’re obviously out to lunch or they’re not paying attention to just call them on it, but politely and [inaudible 00:05:30] what to say, “Is this not a good time?” It kind of gets people, “Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize I was doing that.” They may not realize they’re doing that.

Chris Goede:

And when you talk about being preoccupied, I’ve also been in situations where people are texting or on their phone while they’re like, “No, no, go ahead.” And I’ll be like, “I’ll wait till you’re done, until you can have that.” So there are ways to do it, to your point, a polite way.

Perry Holley:

I had a granddaughter text me once. She said, “I’ll just wait.” I was on my phone and she was eight, eight-

Chris Goede:

Wow.

Perry Holley:

… looked at me and said, “I’ll just wait [inaudible 00:05:57] through.” Talk about stabbing you.

Chris Goede:

Can I get her resume? Maxwell Leadership needs her. All right. The second one here is The Out to Luncher. So this person can be seen as someone that’s just daydreaming instead of listening to you. Physically, they might be there, but mentally they are not at all. And you can just kind of tell, because they’re there but they’re not there. They got that blank look on their face. And so whether they’re either daydreaming or just thinking about something else entirely, they are out to lunch and not in that conversation with you as a leader.

Perry Holley:

So I’m thinking you don’t want to be this person, but we all have other things going on. It’s easy to be thinking about other things. Oftentimes we’re thinking about what are we going to say in response to what you’re saying? And I may even not be paying attention completely to what you’re saying. I think with people like this, you want to continually check in with them. Are you with me? Did you hear what I said? What do you think about what I said? Trying to just bring them back from wherever they are. If they’re at the beach, bringing them back to the conversation. Continually, politely again, just reengaging, reengaging, reengaging. And again, just a reminder, why are we talking about this, is that I want to be heard. I want our communications to be solid and remarkable when we’re having these conversations with our team.

But if people aren’t with me and wasting my breath and it’s not on me, but I can help them, it’s kind of an opportunity to help people become better listeners.

Chris Goede:

That’s good. That’s good.

Perry Holley:

The next one is The Interrupters. I guess that pretty speaks for itself, but the individual is just waiting for their chance to jump into the conversation. They want to chime in at any given time. They’re waiting for you to take a breath. They’re just pursed ready to jump on that. They’re focused on really trying to guess what it is you’re going to say next. And they’ve already got it figured out what you’re saying, so I’ll just go ahead and finish it for you.

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Chris Goede:

Each one of these bring up a different emotion inside you as we’re talking about, and they do for me as well. And this one definitely is frustrating for me and I got to watch myself to do this as well, because as a natural response, we always want to add value to a conversation or tell them a better story. The one upper, or that could… So you just got to be aware of that and I think that each one of us deal with that. But when this happens and they start chiming in, what I want you to do is kind of just stop immediately what you’re talking about.

Don’t try to have a competition talking over each other and then just let them talk, or they’re never even going to listen to you. They won’t even bother to engage with what you’re saying. And then when they’re done, you might even acknowledge them and say, “As I was saying just a minute ago… Or hey, before you said that, this is what we were talking about,” just to kind of… Maybe is that passive aggressive, just kind of slightly bringing to their attention that we were on one track of a conversation. It changed a little bit, because of the interruption, because they interrupted you. So the fourth one that we want to talk to you about is The Whatevers.

Perry Holley:

Say it again.

Chris Goede:

Whatever. You challenged me to do that just a minute ago. And so there’s a little bit of spice for you there. But often a person’s body language and demeanor can give an impression that they don’t care about what’s being said, what you’re talking about, the value that you’re trying to add to them. And so these people remain really aloof and they show little emotion when listening. And so you can feel it. It’s not inspiring to you, it’s not engaging to you. But talk a little bit how to handle this when you’re dealing with somebody that’s a whatever.

Perry Holley:

This is interesting, because why are they a whatever, is that they don’t value you, they don’t value what you’re saying they, they’re not bought into what you’re saying. Maybe they’re not bought into you. Lots of reasons could be behind this. I love if I sense this to ask questions of them-

Chris Goede:

That’s good.

Perry Holley:

… and try to engage them through, “So here’s what I’m thinking, what do you think? How does this affect you? What’s your point of view on that?” And really trying to get them to care and to engage with me on the conversation. But I’m trying to emphasize my points, my ideas, but I need to engage them further, because they’re not engaging. How can I help them with that?

Chris Goede:

That’s good. That’s good.

Perry Holley:

The number five, this one a little problematic. It’s called The Combative. And you probably have had this one as a, they’re, they’re a little hostile, maybe a little rude. They’re not listening for understanding, they’re listening to push back. They’re listening for things they disagree with and they’re listening to get ammunition to use against you in the conversation. And they’re armed and they’re ready to kind of go at it. So they enjoy disagreement and they enjoy blaming others. This is a tough one, because it’s can be a little more aggressive. What are your thoughts on handling that one?

Chris Goede:

When I think about this, this pulls energy out of me. You know going into a conversation at times with those that are combative that they’re going to disagree and there’s going to be points that they’re going to die on the hill for. And so, one of the things I think you can really do, and you said this just a minute ago about the power of questions, even when you’re dealing with different listening types all across. I think right here, again, going back to trying to understand their perspective. So to do that you’ve got to ask questions to be able to get clarity around what they’re so passionate about. And then talk a little bit about how you do agree with certain parts of what they’re talking about, or even how you disagree. And it can be done in a way that is not combative, but yet just conversational. And so I think you can do that a couple different ways.

Perry Holley:

I think about, listen to Andy Stanley talking about differences and differences don’t need to cause division. And so it’s okay that we think different things. We don’t have to agree on everything, but can we still hear each other? Can we listen? To me is really encouraging for me not to be the combative, but if I’m talking to a combative, really trying to engage them on understanding the differences, understanding where the aggression’s coming from, perhaps there’s something I don’t know. And to have that [inaudible 00:13:08] a little bit of humility in the conversation to say differences don’t need to cause this division. We can get past that.

Chris Goede:

And I think just going through this list and seeing them for the first time, I think right now there’s more of this going on in our world. And so that’s now coming into our organizations and it’s coming into our teams and we need to be aware of that, of how to handle that and what it looks like. And to make sure that we’re not listening, we’re not leading that with that listening type as well. Well, the sixth one we want to talk about is The Analyst.

And the analyst probably has no idea that their listening style is completely ineffective. These people are constantly in the role of counselor or therapist, and they’re ready to provide you with unsolicited answers. They think they’re great listeners and love to help. They’re constantly in and analyze what you are saying and fix-it mode. How do we handle this? And then I’m going to give those notes to my wife, because I feel like I do a lot of this when it comes to listening.

Perry Holley:

Yes, I think I do this too, because in our coaching facilitator mode, it’s often easy to listen to someone with a mindset of how to solve it for them and not just take a breath and listen to really understand. It’s why they don’t really know they’re not effective. Now, one thing I would say is you probably want to listen to this person, because they are thinking problem solving mode. They might be thinking something you’re not.

Chris Goede:

That’s right.

Perry Holley:

So they could be bringing something to the table, but you also may need to say, “I just need to run something by you. I don’t need any answers today. I just want to… I’m not looking for advice, I just want to run something by you. Can I just say it, see how it sounds,” and get them to out of the mode of I’m not asking you to solve anything and I think… I’m a husband, so I think I’m always trying to solve it for her, and she doesn’t really need that. She needs me to listen sometimes. And I’m not really listening, I’m looking for the answer while she’s talking. I got this answer. I got this most amazing thing I’m about to say, which she’ll just give me a chance. Yeah, no, just them say it. And it’s most helpful for people to do that.

Chris Goede:

Yeah, that’s good.

Perry Holley:

Number seven. The last one is the positive one. You mentioned The Engagers. These are the consciously aware listeners. They listen with their eyes, their ears, their hearts. They try to put themselves kind of empathetically in the speaker’s shoes. They’re feeling it with you, what you’re saying. They listen at the very highest level. You just know when you’re around someone that’s giving you that undivided attention. They encourage you to continue talking. They want to discover… They help you discover your own solutions. They’re not trying to bring the answer. It’s refreshing when you’re with someone that truly is listening to you without any agenda to do that. So do you know any of these?

Chris Goede:

I do. I know one, it’s not in this room. I’m just kidding. As we talk about and really build everything off of the five levels of leadership inside this podcast and these lessons that we bring to you, this is such a great lesson at level two, because if you can become the engager as a listener, which is an interesting play on words there, it will connect you with your people at a greater level than you’ve ever been able to connect with them before. And that is the foundation of being able to influence people and influence them.

And so when you encounter these great listeners, these engaging listeners, I want to make sure that you acknowledge them, you give them positive feedback, tell them what you’re noticing in the interest level that they have in your topic, and thank them for that, because it doesn’t happen enough out there.

And there’ll be conversations that you’ll actually enjoy having with your team. And so as we wrap this up, I love this list and six of them are things we probably do, we’re just not aware of. We want to bring awareness to you, we give you some tips on how to handle and a little bit about them, but we really want to get to a point to where we become effective, engaging listeners, because that is the way to grow influence. And so as I said in the beginning, we often think about other individuals that fit one of these seven, but I would challenge you to take this lesson, go back, listen to it, maybe download the notes and go through there and make sure you really have a self-awareness, kind of a self-assessment of, do I do this? And if I do, do this, why do I do it? What triggers me to do that? And try to develop some learned behaviors to let that set aside and become more of an engager as a listener.

Perry Holley:

Well, this is a great way for you to be a coaching leader to help bring some awareness, a blind spot revealing to the people on your team or the people in your home, especially also asking for feedback. If you have this open conversation with your team, maybe getting some feedback. “Do I do this to you?” I know people in my home would help me understand. “Yeah, you do that sometimes.” And so it’s a growth, personal growth, but it’s also a way to help others grow. And I will put all seven in the learner guide with the descriptions that we mentioned and the how to combat those. But I agree with Chris. Do a little assessment. Where am I and how can I help the people on my team?

Just remind you, you can go to maxwellleadership.com/podcast. You can get that learner guide there. You can also leave us a note, a question. You can also learn about our other offerings and we’re always glad to hear from you and we’re very grateful that you would spend this time with us. That’s all today for Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast.