Executive Podcast #277: Do You Have a Bias for Change?

Chris Goede:
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Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership executive podcast, where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holly, a Maxwell leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
And I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining us. Today we’re going to talk about how can you raise your change game. I had to slow down there just for a minute. We’re not talking about change in your pocket. We don’t let you have more change. But how can you raise your change game? If you’ve been listening to us, you know that we’re on a theme right now around change inside organizations, inside your leadership, inside your personal growth journey as a leader. And it’s something that is often asked of us as we go in and work with organizations.

Chris Goede:
And so Perry went to work and created some incredible content for us. If you’re interested in learning more about that content, maybe even you have a question about change or a topic that you’d like for us to tackle as we move forward. I want to encourage you to go to maxwellleadership.com/podcast. There you can click on this podcast, fill out that form, and our team will get that to us. As we talk about this, we know that the pace of business rapid is rapid, not only here, but in every organization, even in the pace of your personal space. And it makes us feel overwhelmed. It makes us feel overworked at times. And so we want to make sure that we go, hey, change is not too much to ask, but we need to be open to playing this game, right? And so how can you raise your change game? What does that look like how can you lead it? How can you accept it? How can you find yourselves in it? And so I know that this comes from the content you created and you’re in the field talking to leaders all the time and teams and that this is where this came from.

Perry Holley:
Yes. Like you said, everybody knows it’s moving fast and I’m trying so hard to keep my team engaged and my clients satisfied and our products moving forward and our revenues growing. All the things that are going on is that, can I raise my change game around? What do we need to do next? And we’ve mentioned several times over the last weeks about how dangerous status quo can be and that John says it’s the mess we’re in. It’s a latin for status quo.

Chris Goede:
I love that.

Perry Holley:
Just having that mindset that I need to be looking at this. So I thought I’d throw out a handful of things, get your response to it around. How do we raise our game when it comes to leading change, seeing change, leading change, executing change? I think it’s a leadership competency and it’s one thing that we’re really called upon to do. So I’ll just start off the one thing that I think might be very obvious, but you need to be proactive in looking for and identifying opportunities for change. Where do we need to be implementing changes? And while it seems obvious, yeah, proactive. I need to be thinking ahead on that. Most of us, if I had to tell you the vast number of people that I’m coaching, are being very reactive to change. Somebody got mad, a client filed a grievance, product didn’t meet a promise, something the process didn’t fulfill itself.

Perry Holley:
We ran out of whatever. It’s all react, react, react. We need the change because we’re reacting. I’m thinking, how can I raise my change game and really get proactive in seeing the need for change? I wonder what your thoughts are when it comes to proactively looking for it. I’m not looking for change. I got my hands full.

Chris Goede:
Well, no, not necessarily. But to your point, when you think about change, it always comes with a negative context of why you’re having the change. Some’s not going right. And I want to challenge that thinking. You do need to change things when things aren’t going right. There’s no doubt about that. But I like where you’re going because I would say, and John talks quite a bit about this where he says, hey, man, you need to be doing an autopsy on what is working and why is it working and what do you need to change to make it work a little bit better. You know, the age old s curve of business.

Chris Goede:
And so many people kind of ride that thing out and they hang on and they hang on and they don’t make any changes. And then all of a sudden they start going down. The best time to change is when things are going well. So sitting back and looking at it and saying, man, I need to be proactive to your point, and I need to take initiative. We need to go ahead and start changing some things and now think through it. We’re not saying just change to change, but you need to take the initiative to be able to do that. So I love that thought. The next one you have for us is be practical.

Chris Goede:
And I love this because in our personality assessment that we do in a partnership with Rightpass, my number one intensity is logic. I’m very practical. It has to be very logical to me. Really? Yeah. My wife and I were just having this conversation the other day about a certain situation. It doesn’t make sense to you because it’s not practical. It’s not logical. Well, of course.

Chris Goede:
That’s how I’ve been created. You need to give me a little bit of grace here when it comes to that. But consider the resources. When I talk about being practical as a leader, what we want you to understand is we want you to consider the resources and the constraints of the organization that will have an impact on this change. Don’t try to make it harder, more complex. Don’t try to do things that will outscope the organization. And so you wrote down a couple of things here for us about how to be practical when it comes to that. Listen to the team.

Chris Goede:
What do they need through this change? What are the constraints or challenges that they’re facing? And then how can you help as a leader? And I wrote out to the side, man, just try to keep it simple. Change is hard enough as it is, and so if we’re going to be very practical, understand the resources, let’s try to keep it simple. If you do that, I think you’ll see an enhanced understanding from your team. They’ll adopt faster. If it’s complicated and they don’t understand it, it’s not going to come across really well. I think you’ll get increased buy in the simpler. I know you and I, very simple, right. If it makes sense to us, then we’re absolutely going to buy in faster, and then I think you’ll get quicker implementation if you keep it simple.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. Just a reminder, we’re talking about things that you can do to raise your game when it comes to change, seeing change, planning change, implementing change with your team. Another one that I found.

Chris Goede:
Wait a minute. Can I interrupt you real quick? You have twice now said the title differently than you made me say it in the beginning. Listen, podcast listeners or viewers, you know, from a long time ago, he always throws these titles out and makes me say that in front of people the time because he just sits back and smiles. And now twice he said the title and he said it a lot easier than he made me see it. I need you to follow the script here.

Perry Holley:
I took such joy in the fact that you slowed down to like 25 miles an hour when you were saying it and you sped back up. Just little small increase for me. I just love that. So another item, I think to raise your change, Gabe, is I just want.

Chris Goede:
To change right there. You did that. Yeah.

Perry Holley:
It was really good. Very proactive of you to do that. Bring the energy. I often, in my mind, I have this when I’m with my group about anything we’re doing. Eie o, energy in, energy out. The team is watching you all the time. So especially if we’re looking at a change, if we’re implementing a change, if we’re planning a change, they’re watching you and so are you. Bringing the passion and the energy behind what we’re trying to do, that this is going to be difficult, perhaps it’s going to be really different.

Perry Holley:
And the way we go to business, perhaps this is going to be a fundamental change in the process around how we engage with clients. But you bring the energy with that. I would caution about energy needs to match. You cannot be over the top, exuberant. We got this in gung ho when it’s going to be hard, your energy needs to match the situation. Because I’ve seen leaders come in and be way over the top and nobody’s buying that. So go back to something that we said last week, being authentic, being real about it.

Chris Goede:
This is being believable.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, be believable. But just because it’s hard doesn’t mean we can’t get passionate about it. Just because it’s different doesn’t mean I can’t get fired up and bring energy about it. But I’m going to tell you, the magic here was I’ve seen too many leaders come in a room and go, all right, we’re going to have to change this process. So we might as well just get used to it because they’re going to track it. And all of a sudden the energy is being sucked out of the room, out of the people, and nobody’s going to be behind this. So energy is a huge piece of successful change efforts just because people are watching you. And if you’re appropriately energized about it, I think people will join you in that versus the eio.

Perry Holley:
Energy in, energy out. What you bring, you’re going to get back.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Be true to your leadership style. Your team is going to read right through that and be believable. Be authentic to your leadership style as you’re going through that. Another point here is love this practical idea. Thanks for lining it up with me. Talking a little bit about it is just lead by example. Demonstrate the desired behaviors and attitude that you want to see in your team around change in your own leadership.

Chris Goede:
Your leadership is going to set the tone for that change. Building a little bit off what Perry said. Right. They’re going to feed off of your energy. They’re going to feed off of your believability. And so make sure that you are setting the tone. And when you do that, that’s going to inspire them. That’s going to promote a positive culture.

Chris Goede:
We’re big about what is the organization culture inside? What is the common language? What is the beliefs? What are the behaviors that drive that culture? Well, if you’re demonstrating that and you’re leading that, they’re going to mirror that. And then the other thing I would say around this and leading by example is we’ve talked a little bit about listening, but more importantly, seek feedback about the change as you’re saying, hey, let’s talk a little bit about this and begin asking those questions on the front end. And if you’re leading by that example, not only are you showing your team what the leadership team or the CEO or the owner or the president is desiring, but then also they’re going to start asking that of the people that report to them. So start modeling that and leading by that. And I think if you seek their feedback through that, that example will be huge when it comes to raising your change game.

Perry Holley:
Very. You did that well.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
Congratulations. Another one that I found, I probably should have had this first, but our whole essence here is around developing your influence to make you a better leader. So people are, your level of influence will determine your effectiveness. It’s called the law of the lid. And we believe that you should always be seeking to gain more influence and grow your influence. But I’m thinking when it comes to change was that I need to build very strong interpersonal relationships on my team. This is level two of the five levels of leadership. This is having a relationship and connecting with people on my team that really allow me to ask them to join me in hard things, to ask them to join me in looking for ways to proactively grow our effectiveness in the business, with our clients, with our team, with the processes we have.

Perry Holley:
But it’s just so difficult to lead change if you don’t have relationships with the people. If you don’t have influence, if your influence is lacking, you’re going to struggle. So I’m thinking one thing you can do to help your change game and to increase your ability to lead and see change is to constantly be working on connecting with your team. It’s a level two activity. You absolutely cannot just get past it and say, WHOOP. So glad we got through that. No, you’re always working on connecting with the team. Yeah.

Chris Goede:
I love your reference back to the level two influence on the five levels of leadership. That’s the foundation to leading people and to leading through change. And so for just a quick refresher for those that maybe it’s the first time you’re listening to Perry and I on a podcast, or you’re not sure about the five levels of leadership. It’s what everything we do is built off of. And John says it’s really about influence. It’s not about leadership. We all have influence with people. It’s not about titles.

Chris Goede:
It’s about your influence with people. And he says, at level one, you have influence because of your title. At level two, you have influence. Right? Because your relationship with them. At level three, you have influence with them because of your production, not only yours to the organization, but yours as a team. At level four, you’re beginning to invest in them and reproduce yourself in them. You’re developing them. So then you have level four influence.

Chris Goede:
Finally, at level five, this is kind of the pinnacle level, is you have influence with them because you have led so well for so long at levels, really two, three, and four with them that they just look at you and they go, man, you’re into who you are. You’re an ultimate leader. So with that being said, perry was talking about how at level, it’s just that’s the foundation of really making sure we build that relational, that connection with our team to be able to do that. And what is it that you say? I’ve heard you say, if you’re a level one leader, they’ll say, heck, no. If you’re a level three or level four leader with influence, they’ll say, let’s go. Let’s go. Right. And to your point, you’re going to get that type of feedback from your team.

Chris Goede:
So I love that.

Perry Holley:
I’m always thinking about level one says that people follow because they have to. You have a title, but level two is this amazing greatest leap in all of leadership that says I follow because I want to. What did you do to make me want to? And there’s lots of podcasts on. We’ve talked about that a lot. But when it comes to change, it’s saying, I know you’re bringing some idea to the team, we’re going to undertake this change and they’re going to go at level one. I’m following you because I have to. Because you’re the boss. Yeah.

Perry Holley:
But if I broaden that to level two and three, now I follow because I want to, because I’ve seen something in you. You have influence with me. Let’s go. I’m in with you. Yeah, I love that. They’ll go with you on that.

Chris Goede:
Another way to raise your change game is be patient, but yet persistent. I love this kind of somewhat of a paradox in thinking and in leading and recognize that change takes time, but we do need to be persistent in order to drive it forward. And so as a leader, you’re going to want to go faster, you see further than they see, and you know where you’re going with the change, but you are going to have to take a little bit of time and be patient with them. John has this saying where we use quite a bit where you can’t lead people until you find people. Or if you’re, know, what was the saying where he says, if you’re on a journey, you’re on a walk, you turn around and no one’s following. Yeah, you’re just on a walk, you’re not leading anybody. And so you’re going to have to be patient at times. You’re going to have to slow down and not move at the speed that you want, but yet still be persistent in the change that you want to see.

Chris Goede:
Just understand that the timing might be a little bit slower than you’d like to see.

Perry Holley:
This may be obvious, too, but to raise your change game, it comes down to really character about being well respected is that if you’re not leading from integrity and character and somebody that people build trust. They don’t have trust with you. It’s going to be very difficult to lead effective change. So probably goes without saying that you need to always be, if you want to raise your game around leading, finding and implementing change, you’re going to need to raise your game around character, integrity, and that you’re authentic and real and people know that they can trust you.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Next one is make sure we’ve talked about this in the past, but just make sure you’re a strong communicator. You need to make sure that you do a really good job of communicating this. And there are plenty of resources out there, free resources, that if you just want to improve your communication to the team, whether it is around change, vision, goals, whatever it might be, the benefits of change. I almost kind of went to the word of how you’re selling this to the team. Right. It’s not that you’re selling them something, but you are communicating them. You’re not telling them, but you’re leading them on a journey of why this change needs to happen and the benefit for them.

Chris Goede:
And you need to be able to communicate.

Perry Holley:
Of course, I have a little model, the most practical way I could think about how to do this and one of the elements of the model is sell it. And after you plan it, then I need to sell it. And I do use that term because I think people are. You’re looking for people to buy in, they’re buying, I’m selling. This is what I’m trying to get you, influence you to join me in that. So it is the word I used on that I put in here about being a good negotiator is that if you’re going to raise your change game, navigating the conflicts and the resistance and the pushback that you could eventually, probably, most likely endure in some places, if you’re not doing some of these other things we’ve talked about, you may see more resistance. And sometimes I got to negotiate my way through that, really helping people understand why we’re doing this, what their role in is it, why it’s relevant to what we’re doing, how to see the big picture. Lots of things we’ve talked about around this, but it seemed like a funny word to use around.

Perry Holley:
I’m a negotiator. Yeah. Sometimes you have to work with people that are coming at it from different areas. They’re different biases we talked about in the previous week. You’re going to have to work around a lot of those types of things.

Chris Goede:
The saying, right. Which is we need to lead people the way they need to be led. You need to understand that not only in everyday leadership, but specifically in change, because what’s going to end up happening is the first question they ask themselves all the time. Is how does this affect me? And you better be able to speak their language. You better be able to lead them the way that they need to be led. Well, as I wrap up, finally, the last comment we have here, as I close for us is be empathetic, understanding and considering the emotions and concerns of individuals affected by the change. Let me pause for just a minute. We want you to be empathetic to the emotions of those that are impacted by the change, but not empathetic in a way that is in a negative way because of the change, right? The change is happening and you need to be empathetic to them and how it’s affecting them and their emotions and their concerns.

Chris Goede:
That’s one side of things, but not necessarily empathetic about the change itself. I shared this a couple of weeks ago, but we don’t want to be a change empathizer with people. We don’t want to make sure that we’re sitting in it with them in regards to the change itself. But when it comes to their feelings and how it’s affecting them, that’s the first question I asked that you asked that when change happened. And so we need to be aware of that and we need to be empathetic about that and work through that with the individual team members.

Perry Holley:
That’s been a hard learning for me, but everybody sees it differently and feels it differently, experiences it differently. Not like me. While I’m typically, I would say life’s tough. Get a helmet, let’s go. Not everybody’s going to see it, so little empathy goes a long way and just realizing people are coming at it from a different view. Well, great talk. Thank you for that. And a reminder, if you would like to see the Learner guide, learn more about our family of podcast offerings, or even leave us a question or a comment, you may do all of that maxwellleadership.com/podcast.

Perry Holley:
We love hearing from you. Grateful that you spend the time with us. That’s all today from the Maxwell Leadership executive podcast.