Executive Podcast #299: Managing Impact Over Intent

Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership executive podcast, where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley, a Maxwell leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
And I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining as we get started today. Just a quick reminder. Use this content on a daily basis. It’s one of the things that Perry and I hear as we travel around the world, organizations and leaders just saying, hey, go listen to this 20 minutes podcast. Come back. Let’s, let’s hear your number one takeaway as we start meetings. And we hope this will add value to you.

Chris Goede:
That’s why we do this. In addition, if you could visit maxwellleadership.com/podcast there, if you have an idea, if you have a content piece that maybe you guys are struggling with, we want to encourage you to go to this podcast. Click on it. There’s a form there you can fill out and, and just submit that form to us. It’ll come to Perry because Perry creates the content. And then also, if you have any questions about training or coaching, we would love to help you out there. Well, today’s topic is managing impact over intent. And I really love this.

Chris Goede:
We’re going to talk a lot. We talk a lot about the intent versus perception gap before on this podcast, but also with a lot of leaders and what you intend to do one way, no doubt someone’s going to perceive it another way. This is a little bit of a different spin on that to where your intent is, no doubt what you want to do, but the reality of how someone’s impacted by that may be not, shouldn’t say, maybe most of the time it is different. And so we’re going to dive in and just talk a little bit about this and your awareness of it and how to work through it.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. And this came from a listener, a question that I think they thought we’d said something else. And it got me thinking, did we, did we muddy the water on that? So I really was glad that they raised their hand, asked the question, can we talk more about that? I will also credit Harvard Business review, lots of great content. If you want more on this, I encourage you to search that. I got a lot of value from listening and learning from some of the writing they’ve done on this. So I’ll share a piece of that here just before we jump in that you know what the meaning of intent is generally what you have in mind. It’s a goal. It’s what you’re thinking about doing.

Perry Holley:
It’s an intention that you have. It reflects the type of impact you’re thinking about making and want to create with your actions. But then impact is actually the result of your actions. So, I intend to. One thing. You said, I intend to. One thing. I got impact from my actions.

Perry Holley:
The results aren’t necessarily the same as what you intended. Then impact reflects the reality of your actions. So, really, kind of key to me is that I don’t know a leader on the planet that has bad intentions. I mean, there may be one, but we don’t know them. Right, but you have good intentions. But the. The impact that is not as positive is that.

Chris Goede:
And oftentimes, when you hear that from your own personal experience, don’t you just sit back and go, no. Like, how did that happen? Right. I think we’ve all been there as communicators. I think talking to my wife just last night, we probably had that conversation. Right. And this is. This is something that we want you to think about both personally and professionally as you’re communicating. And so, um, listen, even if you feel really, really good about your intentions, that is not going to stop the other person at times from feeling in a negative way.

Chris Goede:
If it impacted them in a negative way, that that is their right. And you as a leader, we always talk about this, Perry, and I do, is that you’ve got to close that gap. It’s your responsibility, if you’re leading the conversation, if you’re leading the individual, whatever that might be, personally, professionally, to close that gap. And so we want you to make sure that you. Your intent is pure. First of all, we often talk about in leadership, there’s a fine line between influence and manipulation, and that’s your motive. Your intent’s got to be pure, that you got to have good motive there. So let’s make sure we start with that as a foundation, but then from there, your actions, you can’t necessarily control how they’re going to receive that, but you got to be aware of it, and you got to understand it and be asking questions to make sure you get to the bottom of it.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
One thing that Harvard Business review said, it kind of. I wasn’t sure if I believed it at first, but the more I think about it. So the intent is who you are, the impact is what you did, and that your personality sometimes can be tied to your intentions. And we. That’s funny. Been talking about we do right path, and we have been in a deep study of that in the last couple days, and that I have a very specific personality and a temperament. And the way I’ve heard you say this, but what’s it like to be on the other side of your leadership?

Chris Goede:
Right.

Perry Holley:
So what? I think it must be amazing.

Chris Goede:
Awesome. Who? Unbelievable.

Perry Holley:
Who wouldn’t want to be on the other side of my leadership? But that, you know, I don’t think I ever intend to hurt someone, but, you know, I have a helpful personality. I want to help. I have these great intentions, but then my actions are going to tie, to really drive the impact of what I did. And I thought they said, most importantly, remember the difference. If someone tells you why, it’s important to know the difference if somebody tells you that your actions impacted them negatively. If, as they say, your actions hurt me somehow to do that, that they’re not attacking you as a person, they’re just kind of attacking your, you know, how it felt from the intentions that you had. So, listen, with the intent to understand how your actions impacted them instead of taking it personally. And so I often think, I didn’t mean to hurt anybody.

Perry Holley:
Now, do I have a personal problem with somebody? No, I. My intentions were not perceived the way I expected them to be.

Chris Goede:
When I make that statement to myself of when I’m talking to myself. Right, Chris, you know, that’s not what you intended to do. Right. So what ends up happening as a leader, even as an individual? Thinking about this in everyday life, I automatically get defensive because that was not what my intent was. So then what ends up happening is now, I’m not curious, which we talk a lot about. I’m not questioning, I’m not trying to understand to your point. And then it gets downhill in a hurry because I want to get defensive. So what made me think about that? I’m gonna put you on the spot for just a minute.

Chris Goede:
100% avid learner. You just heard him. He understands our right path and our profiles, but he was in a two day training, just learning more, learning more. Always wants to help and serve. He doesn’t know how to say no, and we’re working on this. But when he gets to a point, he continues to say yes. But the way you might communicate, it might be you’re tired. Right.

Chris Goede:
And so the way that then that impact has on a team is like, hey, I don’t think Perry’s very engaged. I mean, he said yes, but then the way he responded or. Right, and so, no, that wasn’t your intent at all. That just is the way in the moment that you were feeling. So then when they say, hey, did it bother you that I. Then you get, like, no, right? Like it’s this vicious cycle. And so I don’t know if you sense or feel that at times, but I know that I do when that was not my intent. And then they call me out for it, which I want them to.

Chris Goede:
Then I just bow up, and we start having a discussion that’s probably not very healthy.

Perry Holley:
One of our team that I partner with a lot, Amanda, was with me in this class, and so she asked me questions because she’s looking at my personality, I’m looking at hers. We got all this, you know, this science and these numbers and all these measurements, and she says she sees that my personality type doesn’t really handle a lot of detail well. I’m a personality. I’m a. I’m a relationship guy. I don’t know. And she’s really into. She provides a.

Perry Holley:
A lot of details. She says, does your meat giving you that detail bother you? Does it overwhelm you? And I paused. She goes, oh, my gosh, it does. I go, I didn’t intend that. And now I’ve impacted her. And I didn’t actually even say anything very good. But I looked on my face, but I said, no, no, no. And I’m now back.

Perry Holley:
I’m backpedaling, going, well, what did I intend? Does it sometimes, but not really. I mean, she does a great job of telling me why I need to have the detail. Then I said, oh, yeah, she’s going to make me look better in front of a classroom. I probably need to know that. But I thought, man, she just, all of a sudden, she started. I could tell. I heard her feelings, and I didn’t even say anything.

Chris Goede:
That reminds me, I’m sure in that situation, we’ve heard John say many times before, just be glad that I didn’t say what I was thinking in that moment. But, no. And that’s the great thing about different personalities and even just going down a squirrel trail for just a minute. That’s why we do this, right? I mean, we need to understand how people are wired, because we need people that are not like us on our team. Without an Amanda Perry doesn’t show up, and everything’s ready to go, right, doesn’t maybe know what the needs of the client are. And so I’m in front of class.

Perry Holley:
I should have asked more questions.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Like, hey, I’m Perry.

Perry Holley:
What are we here? We’re doing a podcast.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

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Chris Goede:
So what can we do about this?

Perry Holley:
Right?

Chris Goede:
So there’s no doubt that, again, our intentions are going to have an impact on others. There’s no doubt even just through our examples here, it’s going to lead to misunderstanding at times, maybe misalignment, even in that example that perry just shared with amanda. Um, and. And as a leader, and you’re leading a team, if you don’t dig into this, it is going to undermine your ability to increase your influence and to get the team all together in a shared vision and where we’re going. So you’ve got to be aware of how your words and your actions appear. I love this word you put in my notes. Appear to others. Right.

Chris Goede:
And then this goes where I was just talking about. Instead of getting defensive, you got to take responsibility for the impact that you had on that individual, because they’re not wrong, right. That that is the way that they receive that information, even though it wasn’t your intent.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, I think it uses. A minute ago that just occurred to me. That’s probably really important. But you said probably had this with my wife last night’s conversation. This is such a life thing. It is not just your work and your team. I can’t imagine how many times is coming through the door. And I had good intentions, but they were received differently.

Perry Holley:
My impact was evident through the actions and things that happened. And I just want to encourage everyone that’s listening, don’t. Don’t just make this work. No, it’s. It goes with you where you are. It’s also thing about also that your intentions or your original plan. But while the impact of what happens is really a result of your actions, so it’s important to. And it’s really a self awareness thing.

Perry Holley:
Can you be really aware of how your behavior can affect others? And we’ve talked here before about you’re always making people feel something. What is it you make people feel? And are you aware of that? And then could you do it on purpose? So, if I’m. I want to have good impact with my team, even though my intentions are pure. The best part, I’m not on any bad intentions, but the way it comes across, the way my behaviors may impact that action can be very negative.

Chris Goede:
Absolutely. I was thinking about when you were just talking real quick. We do a lot of work with teams on conflict resolution, tough conversations, and to Perry’s point, even personally, right at home, with your family, in your peer community, whatever it might be, that whole intent versus perception gap. And this impact and intention is a great way to start a very tough conversation. And so we want to encourage you. We teach that in a lot of leadership development that we do. And I didn’t want to miss that because, man, that is key. Matter of fact, that’s my wife and I.

Chris Goede:
When John first introduced the intent versus perception gap, we started having these conversations at home, and it helped our. It helped the way that we were able to communicate. I think also it is good to acknowledge that the intentions that you have are. They’re personal to you, right? Like, that’s why I’m gonna go back to. That’s why I get defensive, because they’re personal. I knew what my intent was, and I knew I had a good motive. But that impact is observable to others. Right.

Chris Goede:
They are gonna take it personally as well. And so you may feel confident about your ideas, but how you then behave can have a completely different effect on someone else. So going a little bit deeper and even thinking about the behavior behind your intentions is going to have an impact on those that you’re communicating with.

Perry Holley:
That led to something else that the HBR folks had called out about. It’s a communication issue, how you communicate. We talk a lot about how important communication is to leadership, that the way you communicate can affect how people perceive you and then your message to boot. So how I’m seeing you, they’ve come to how I see your message. So I’m thinking a real tactic here would be to try to focus your words and your actions to ensure they align with your intention. So I’m gonna maybe have to think a little more before I speak. I may need to be sure that what I’m speaking is aligned with my intentions or aligned with my words, and then my actions back those up even more. Then I can convey the message really more clearly to others.

Perry Holley:
Again, I’m thinking at home is that we get a little quick with words sometimes with people that we’re closest with, I hadn’t really thought about how it would come out, how that might sound. And I didn’t align my words, my intention, or my actions. And now I can’t figure out why I’m in the ditch or the couch either way.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. And with. With your team, this. I think what Perry’s talking about, this is one of the quickest ways for you as a leader and as a team lead to. To erode the trust that you may have built with them and to be disconnected from them. And that’s not what we want. Right. When we think about where we want to go as a team and as an organization and increase your influence, we want to be connected.

Chris Goede:
We talk about this at level two and the five levels, and we want to build that trust, which takes time. So you lose it quickly. Takes time to build it. This is key to understand, to make sure that you don’t erode that trust. Your actions, no doubt, can have a significant impact on the team. You can set a good example by being clear about your expectations, communicating clearly and giving constructive feedback. Focusing on your actions is important if you want to motivate and inspire your team. The old statement of, you know what? You do speak so loudly, I can’t even hear what you’re saying.

Chris Goede:
And so, again, thinking about the actions, the intent behind your actions, and then how those actions are received by your team.

Perry Holley:
And I put this last piece in, it was because we do so much on the generational diversity and differences and inclusive leadership and appreciating differences of people, is that because of our differences? And it could be nationality, ethnicity, age, gender, race. There’s just a number of diverse aspects of all of us that everyone kind of can see things through their own lens differently. And so, again, your intentions, while noble and probably good, come across as. Yeah, I’m. How do I need to think about. Reflect on how it’s going to be received by. We were. You know, we have many talks about, especially generational diversity, how the different generations.

Perry Holley:
So how I speak as a baby boomer sounds to a Gen Z. My intentions were good, but you sounded condescending. You. Your. Your impact on me is negative because I thought you were talking down to me. Well, I didn’t intend to talk down to you, but how did. How did that happen? Is that they’re. From their view, I’m a old guy.

Perry Holley:
They’re a young person. I have no clue. They have all the answers, and I’m sounding. I’ve missed the boat somehow, you know, for all this. So it’s not personal, but it can feel personal to other people based on their. Come from, on their. How they identify, how they see themselves. And I just thought.

Perry Holley:
I wondered what your thoughts were on that communicating. And I want my impact to be strong and the positive that we have, but sometimes it gets off base for no cause of my own.

Chris Goede:
No cause. It’s completely unintentional.

Perry Holley:
Right.

Chris Goede:
Like, so let’s use the other side of that, where it’s not what you meant, but it gets off in a hurry, and then it can go down a bad path in regards to your connection with the individual. And I think what you’re saying, too, is that as leaders, it’s our responsibility to understand how our team, our family, our peers are wired, and then adjust your leadership style, your communication style to that. It makes me think of one of our great partners. I’ll just. I’ll use the name Brian. And their organization walks around. They believe in this so much that they walk around. They use a personality profile where it has four different colors.

Chris Goede:
The MBS system. And I was thinking about the generational gap between he and I and how do we connect. It’s pretty great, but I won’t tell you which one’s older or younger. But what I love about this is that I know what my intent is, is to engage people. But oftentimes, because I’m wired, sometimes I’m. I’m a little focused, a little process oriented, got to go to the next steps kind of thing. Whereas his. His profile is not.

Chris Goede:
He wants to engage, he wants to talk, and we have a lot of fun and a lot of laughs. But if I wasn’t aware of that.

Perry Holley:
Yeah.

Chris Goede:
And he says this, we joke around at times. If I wasn’t aware of that, at times, if I don’t engage him, it’s not my intent not to build a relationship or have a laugh or have fun or whatever, goof around. No, I was just, like. I was focused on something, a process or a system. But the way it was impacted him is like, man, Chris, is everything all right? Did I not. You know, and all of a sudden, we go down a hole that. That is not at all what we were intending to do. And so adjusting each other’s leadership style allows us to connect and to bridge a gap that.

Chris Goede:
That’s like, how do you think about this? How do you bridge a gap as leaders and as people from what your intent was to the impact that it has on your people, and it’s your responsibility to do that. Okay, so how do you do that? As I wrap up, how do you do that? We’ve talked a lot today about some nuggets for you to think about, but, man, seek feedback. You mentioned early on, what’s it look like to be on the other side of my leadership, personality wise? Let’s just talk about personality wise, right? What does that look like? Are you actively listening or am I getting to a point to where I’m defensive because I’m mad? Because that was not my intent and you took it that way, even though you have the full right to tell me and coach me through how you impacted that and why. And then at the end of the day, if we are going to drive engagement with our teams, the only way you can do that is to truly understand how they’re wired. Because when you do that, you will know what your intentions are, impact those that are on your team.

Perry Holley:
Fantastic. Well, I know. And Brian, the way I do, I know your intention was to give a great example about your relationship. Your impact was he just drove his car in a ditch. That’s right.

Chris Goede:
Automobile university.

Perry Holley:
I know how that goes. All right, Chris, thank you. And it’s a reminder if you’d like to get the learner guide for this issue, some of the notes that we had from this episode, you can do that as well as learn more about our offerings. You can also leave us a comment or a question. Do all that at maxwellleadership.com/podcast we love hearing from you. Very grateful you’d spend this time with us. That’s all today for the Maxwell Leadership executive podcast.

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