Executive Podcast #317: Leading Beyond Your Direct Reports

Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Executive podcast. Our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley, a Maxwell leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
And I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining. Today’s topic is leading beyond my direct reports. I love this. This title has everything about influence laid right in the title of it. And so, once again, as you mentioned, like, this is part of. This is coming right from the field. This is something that has been part of our coaching conversations, and it sounds a lot like a topic around 360 degree leadership.

Chris Goede:
So we’re going to dive into that in just a minute. Before we do, I want to encourage you to go to maxwellleadership.com podcast, and there you can download the learner guide. Leave a question, even more importantly, if you have a topic that you’d like for us to tackle in the future, Perry would love for that, as. As we are working over 300 podcasts, trying to come up with titles. But this is what we love about coaching and facilitating, because when we’re in the field working with organizations, this is. This is what we’re dealing with, real stuff. We want to bring it to you. So give us a little bit of context behind the title for today.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, I was on a coaching call with a senior leader from a major organization, and we were talking about how his leadership was growing, and he just made this kind of thought provoking. It wasn’t really asking a question, because I just wonder sometimes if my. If my influence will reach beyond my direct reports, who all know me because I’m working across the organization. And what he’s doing is he’s leading a couple of cross functional teams in the organization with people that don’t. They know of him because of his title and his name, but they don’t know him. And he says, is my influence enough? Will I be able to influence people on a cross functional team? And I thought, you know, it’s really a great question for all of us. And as you said, extending my influence beyond leading down to my team or leading up to my boss, leading across in the organization who, people who don’t really have to listen to you. They.

Perry Holley:
They should, and. But you really want to maximize that. So that’s. That’s where it came from.

Chris Goede:
Well, I love the way that, that he’s thinking about this, because so many executives would just be like, it’s command and control. I’m coming in with level one. And it’s because my title, they’re going to have to. But he’s saying, hey, no, I’m not going to lean on that. Right. In order to lead this cross functional team, I want to increase my influence beyond what my title is. And I love the way he’s thinking about it, because oftentimes these leaders, their title enters the room, enters the meeting right before they do, and he’s saying, hey, before that even happens, I want to talk a little bit about how do I increase my influence and what does that look like? And so I love that he’s saying, man, how do I grow my influence with my peers and that your title has nothing to do with what’s going on in that meeting. Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And I was thinking about, you know, all influence, the way we would teach at all. Influence begins with building strong relationships and getting to know people. And, you know, practically thinking, how would you go about this with people who don’t report to you that are in other parts of the organization? And I thought, you know, to your point just now, is that, first of all, recognizing there is a power dynamic in play, 100%, whether you like it or not.

Chris Goede:
That’s right.

Perry Holley:
They know you’re an executive and they’re nothing. And so there’s going to be a dynamic. But are you self aware of your effect on other people? So when you, even though there is a power dynamic, when you’re with people coming into the room, are you leaning on that power dynamic, or can they, are you self aware that that may have an effect and I can be more genuine, more real, allow time to get to know members of the, of the team. So if you were leading a cross functional team, they don’t necessarily report to you. Can you build in some relationship building time into there? I’ve always enjoyed personally networking with peers and leaders from other departments. So are there ways this is a little bit pre work almost before you get these, can I build relationships and network around the organization? It may not be possible in some places, but often it is. And then, you know, are you offering help and support to colleagues that are outside your direct team? Other things you could do that your team, maybe not even you personally, but your team could do to provide help. And so you become more of a known factor.

Perry Holley:
The power dynamic is reduced. You seem like a real, genuine, authentic person. You really want us to win. Your influence with me is growing because I know I can trust you. That type of thing.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. What I love about this, again, this is a level two action item right here. Right. Building strong relationships, having the meeting before the meeting, connecting with people, whatever that might look like. Another option is we’ll move right to even level three, and I’ll use that as language is how do you develop an expertise and credibility in that area? Right. With, with that team, so that you increase your influence, not because of your title, but because of the expertise that you have in that area and that you’re an expert in that field. So just make sure that you’re continuously gaining knowledge in that area, continuing to learn consistently, and then, then share what you’re learning with that team. Share your expertise through, whether it’s a presentation, whether it’s a workshop, maybe it’s a publication, whatever it might be, just get the word out that you understand what it takes in that area to be able to deliver.

Perry Holley:
Your competency will attract a lot of people if they think you’re a valued member of the team. Draws that in. You know, when I was with IBM, I had the opportunity to lead a couple of cross functional work efforts, and it was a very matrix. It’s very common now to have a matrix organization where not everybody that reported to me was on my team. I had people from all over to do that, and I learned this late, but I learned it eventually that I really need to understand organizational dynamics, what’s going. Just because I run a piece of the company, a piece of the, I have a team and how it works. This is something you’ve had to do. You have us, CSG corporate solutions group, but you also are working with other parts.

Perry Holley:
They don’t all work the same. They don’t all have the same dynamics. They don’t all use. Some of them use the same processes, but others have other processes. How familiar are you across the organization so that the worst thing you can do, it can hurt your influence, is come in with all your knowledge and understanding about one way of doing it and force that on people who have not done it that way. So aligning your projects and goals with the organization objectives, making sure everybody’s in sync, and then become the go to person for navigating, navigating the internal systems and procedures, don’t just assume that they’re all the same. Understand how they work and be the navigator to get things through the system. People will.

Perry Holley:
Then your influence goes up because people said, well, I can trust Chris. He knows how to get things done in this company. He knows how to get things through.

Chris Goede:
I love the organizational dynamic phrase when you’re doing this, man. Be curious about that, right? Like, be asking questions and understand that so that you can provide to some of the points that Perry was mentioning. Well, this may be obvious, but one that we need to mention here is, man, make sure you’re leading by example, right? People are watching you all the time. Okay? That’s Perry’s favorite phrase, right? All the time. They’re gonna be watching you. So make sure that you are, as a leader, continuing to exhibit high standards and performance. Make sure you’re. You’re showing.

Chris Goede:
I’m willing to take on a challenge and support the organization’s initiatives, even when they may not be tied directly to your personal initiatives, and then be open to feedback and continuous improvement. I think that’s one of the greatest ways that a leader that has a title that goes into cross functionally is able to gain influence, is by saying, hey, give me some feedback. What do you. What do you see that’s working? What’s not working with me individually, as a leader, or with the team?

Maxwell Leadership Certified Team:
Hey, podcast listeners, many of you listening right now would probably love the autonomy that comes with owning your own business or becoming a coach that helps other businesses succeed. Well, we have a phenomenal strategy where you are 100% in control of your own business, earning income on your own terms, and have access to the people, tools, and resources you need to build a thriving leadership development business. When you become a Maxwell leadership certified team member, you join a global community of entrepreneurs led by our expert team of mentors and faculty, including John C. Maxwell. You’ll also get one of the top leadership certifications in the world, next to your name, giving you the boost you need to get started. Visit us online at maxwellleadership.com/jointheteam to find out more.

Perry Holley:
You’re going to increase your influence outside of your direct report. So, against this cross functional or cross organization, communication is critical, and your ability to effectively communicate to the team is going to be the difference between their buy in and not. I just think it’s probably everything but frequency, you know, how often do you communicate? How accessible are you for them to communicate to you? How transparent are you on what the challenges are? Where are we going? How much do you share various methods of communicating? A lot of it would be great if it’s face to face, but we don’t always have that. So should I be sending emails? Should I be sending text messages? Should I be recording short video messages? What is the right medium for me to communicate? And how personal can I make the communications when it’s possible and where it’s possible? Can I speak personally to people and let them know. I see you and I hear you and I want to have this communication, but I just wonder what you’re, when you think about your cross organizational role that you have, you really are touching many divisions and parts of the business. How important is communication for you? Do you lean on?

Chris Goede:
I do, and I think that it’s also one of my biggest challenges because as any of us, the more that we take on, the more that gets added to your plate, the less you’re communicating proactively. And then it becomes reactive, which is not the best way to do that. Also, in this example, with this coaching situation, I would also say early on that your intentionality behind communicating often and transparently and vulnerably needs to be the focus because I think it sets the stage for them to connect with you in order to gain influence. So I think it’s huge. And I would say that use, I love what you said, use different, you know, vehicles to be able to deliver that. Sometimes it could be through chat or slack and just encouraging. I’ll often do that when I. Sometimes it’ll be, I got a minute to record a video.

Chris Goede:
Hey, thinking about your team, whatever. Sometimes it’s, I’m picking up the phone, having one on one conversations with individuals and so be creative and use different vehicles to be able to communicate.

Perry Holley:
One thing I think you’ve done really well is if I have a Monday morning in California keynote I’m doing, I’ll get a text from you saying, hey, appreciate you out. You had to travel on the weekend, sacrifice your family, really appreciate you being out there for us and let me know what you need that says you. You know, where the team’s out there working. You’re not really understanding. You don’t know who I’m talking to or where I am. But you know that I had to travel. And so you, by letting me know that you see me, you know, I’m out there, kind of increases that motivation and that drive to say, you know, it was hard traveling on Sunday afternoons, getting here and going a long way and had a long drive and blah, blah, blah. Then, no, nobody loves me.

Perry Holley:
Everybody hurts me. No, they do love me. They do know where I am. To do that and letting people know that you’re out there. And I think the number one thing you can do to hurt your influence cross organization is if they think, I never see the guy, right? I never know. I haven’t heard anything. The boss lately. No, nobody knows who’s leading this.

Perry Holley:
And they, like you said, lead by example. People are watching. You all think if they can’t see you, it’s even worse to do that.

Chris Goede:
I had the opportunity last week. I was with an organization out in Phoenix and just went out there to spend some time with their key players in the morning. And you and I, and in this leadership bubble, we talk about the fact of, hey, you need to make sure people are seen, valued, and heard. And I said it, and I just said it in passing as I was facilitating. And one of the biggest takeaways from one of the leaders in the room was, hey, did, did you guys hear that? Like, what are we doing inside this team to make sure that we all feel seen, valued, and heard? And so I think that’s just a, again, as, as an executive, if you’re going cross functionally, matter of fact, not even an executive going cross functionally. If you’re a leader inside an organization and you want to increase your influence, I’d encourage you to be aware of that as well as the other things. The other thing I’ll say is make sure you’re putting, completing them ahead of competing with them. Right? You’re not, you’re trying to help complete a project or a task or something for the organization as part of that team.

Chris Goede:
You’re not competing with them. And make sure that they’re very aware of that. Because if for any reason that team sniffs out that an executive is over here or another leader’s over here for something that’s going to be self gain, they’re going to sniff it out. And so your motives are wrong in the first place. But don’t do that just to get ahead. Make sure you’re over there to help lift and rise the tide for that team itself and whatever you’re trying to accomplish.

Perry Holley:
And last thing I’ll add on that is, John speaks often about what your mindset about abundance. Mindset or scarcity? Mindset. Abundance. There’s plenty to go around, and you’re trying to help scarcity, you’re holding things back. But really, how people view you across the organization is, are you trying to get stuff for you? Are you trying to motive matters? Like, just what you were saying is that people can sniff that out. They know, are you, you’re trying to be abundant and share all that you have resources and time and those types of things, or are you holding it back just for yourself? And my final thought is, it may seem simplistic, but I’ll say it anyway, is that sometimes just being a friend to people, letting the best idea win, you know, they’ll have to always be your idea. Letting other people share with that. And don’t pretend you have all the, don’t pretend you’re perfect and have all the answers.

Perry Holley:
When you that you mentioned the word vulnerability a while ago, but just being that vulnerable, I don’t have all the answers. I can sure use your help. How do we, can we solve this problem? Being present, being seen across the organization begins to raise your level of influence. People say that’s just an authentic, real. I just really enjoy being around you because you care what I think. You ask what I think. You share ideas, you give credit, you have an abundance mentality. You give, you don’t take, and it really sets you apart from others.

Chris Goede:
As we wrap up, what Perry just laid out for you was the five levels of leadership. And so this is real, right? No matter what your title is, no matter where you’re in the organization, if you want to increase your influence, level one is given to you by the organization. Level five is given to you by people over time. All of the work and everything we’ve talked about here in order to increase your influence with direct reports, I would challenge, say with anybody is how are you connecting with them at level two? How are you producing together, helping them win better, better men of the organization, and then how are you adding value and developing them? That’s four. So levels two, three, and four just laid out in a, in a podcast story for you to say that’s what that looks like. And so I would just encourage you to dive into that model, to understand the methodology of how to do that and increase your influence. I’ve seen it change not only executives presence and lives, but also personal in my family and seeing that lived out. So, man, we’re just big believers in that.

Chris Goede:
What we built this podcast off of. Continue to listen, continue to share, and we’re grateful for you very much.

Perry Holley:
So if you’d like to learn more about our offerings, like the five levels of leadership or the 360 degree leader, if you’d like to get a learner guide for this episode or learn about the other podcasts in our family, you can do all that at maxwellleadership.com/podcast. You can also leave us a comment or a question. We always love hearing from you, and we’re very grateful you spend this time with us. That’s all today for the Maxwell Leadership executive podcast.

High Road Leadership Book:
Are you ready to elevate your leadership to new heights? Join the movement towards high road leadership with John C. Maxwell’s latest book. In high road leadership, John explores the power of valuing all people, doing the right things for the right reasons, and placing others above personal agendas. Learn how to inspire positive change and bring people together in a world that divides. Order now and receive exclusive bonuses, including a keynote on high road leadership by John Maxwell himself and a sneak peek into three impactful chapters. Take the first step towards becoming a high road leader. Visit highroadleadershipbook.com to order your copy today.