Executive Podcast #323: Gen Z – Are They Really Unmotivated?

Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast, where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley of Maxwell Leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
And I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining. As we’re diving in today, I just want to remind you of a content piece that has and is making a difference in organizations around the world. And Perry leads it quite a bit. It’s leading multigenerational teams and it’s taken teams through this content that Tim Elmore has provided for us that Perry has become a master on and really getting them to understand the different generations. I’ve sat in on a couple of them.

Perry Holley:
The.

Chris Goede:
They’re a lot of fun.

Perry Holley:
It affects everybody.

Chris Goede:
It affects everybody in the team. I mean, there’s lots of laughter, there’s lots of ahas. There’s like, oh, so that’s why Perry is the way he is. Right? Like. And so it’s just a great understanding.

Perry Holley:
I just thought he was old.

Chris Goede:
I just thought he was old. The level two side of five levels where you, we really gotta connect with people. It is amazing. And now there’s five, some are saying maybe even six generations soon to be in the workforce. And so we want to encourage you. If that’s something you go, man, that would help us. We would love to provide that for you. If you go to maxwellleadership.com/podcast, click on this podcast.

Chris Goede:
There’s a form there. Fill that out, send it to us and just say multigenerational teams in the tagline and we’ll follow back up with you and let you know what that looks like. Well, speaking of that, today’s topic, we’re going to continue on this theme of Gen Z. And today we’re going to talk about are they really unmotivated? And so last week we started a couple of thoughts around that. I want to encourage you to go back and listen to our thoughts on Gen Z last week. Today we’re going to talk about are they really unmotivated? A lot of people say that. They always usually say that about the next generation. Right? I can remember my dad and, you know, it just.

Chris Goede:
It’s something that always happens. Yeah, that’s right. That’s exactly right. And so we’re going to talk, we’re going to talk a little about that. Our, our expectations and beliefs are two of the most significant factors in determining the success of Gen Z teammates that we lead. I was with an organization just last week and we were talking about different generations, but we’re also talking about the belief deficit that’s out there. And I think different generations have different levels of belief deficit. And as leaders, it’s our responsibility to make sure that we put the right expectations but also have the right belief as these two factors of determining the success of those teammates.

Chris Goede:
And so I’ve heard Tim say you need to move from frustration to fascination when it comes to this generation. Talk a little bit about that.

Perry Holley:
He also said, what if we saw them as trailblazers and not troublemakers. Yeah, he’s really got some great one liners about how we choose to see this younger generation and moving it into a positive light, not a negative one. And when I ask executives on coaching calls, I always start almost every call saying, what’s going on, what’s winning, what’s losing, what’s your strength, what’s your struggles? And more than one time, Lacy, a lot lately I’ve heard them come back with saying that this younger generation. And I said, well, what about them? Because I study it quite a bit and they go, they’re just not motivated. Now that’s a big word.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And I don’t particularly. I’m going to need more to label somebody not motivated. There’s not that they’re not motivated. I think it’s something else.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And just to remind those of you not clear, Gen Z is what we consider people born and we look at it from 2000 to 2017. Ish. Tim will tell you that there’ll be different sociologists that do different. You might see some from 1997 to 2015 or 1998. It’s roughly in that what’s going to be at your office right now is going to be your 20 something. So probably up to age 25, 26 would be the Gen Z. And then it goes over to millennial. So in that space in there, that’s what we’re looking at.

Chris Goede:
Well, I thought when you started talking about different sources going back to maybe 98, 97, I thought I was going to get there. Thought maybe I was going to be a part of Gen Z. But you stopped too soon.

Perry Holley:
You were a millennial, but you’re from another millennia. So I don’t know.

Chris Goede:
That’s all I want. Well, speaking of that, Tim says that both millennials and Gen Z represent the future. Did you hear that? The future?

Perry Holley:
Yes. It is a future.

Chris Goede:
Yes. In the land of tomorrow, though, we’re immigrants and they are the natives. Right. It’s going to be their land.

Perry Holley:
That’s a really big deal.

Chris Goede:
Big deal.

Perry Holley:
What you just said is that we tend to think this is our world. It’s not. It’s changing. The hands are changing and they are.

Chris Goede:
Going at a rapid pace.

Perry Holley:
Yes. And they’re going to be the largest population in the workforce soon. And that in this land, we are the immigrants, they’re the natives, the digital natives. And we need to start understanding how this is transitioning.

Chris Goede:
That’s right. You know, instead of expecting those younger generations, Gen Z specifically for today, to be just like us or the older veterans, we really should then get curious, which is a word I know you’re extremely passionate about, to really understand them before we even try to get them to understand us. Right. We should, we should definitely go that route. And so this new batch, this new movement of employees and team members they raised in the 21st century and they bring a lot of intuition about where the world is going. And then really this whole technology piece, this, the smart technology, why that is so attractive to not only them and businesses, but also their peers.

Perry Holley:
Well, two factors that Tim brings up in his teaching that I thought was interesting, that I’ll take the first one, you can take the second one, which was the number one is the age of authority is dropping and that they have authority at much younger ages than what we would have had. We were, I don’t know, I think for me, I didn’t have a clue about anything even into 18, 19, just, you know, making my way through life, trying to get out of high school and get to college. But this Gen Z group, this, these 20 somethings you have have grown up in an age of technology, social media, they’re very active. They, they’re influencers. They know how many ways to reach people through their influence. They’re very intuitive, much more intuitive than the older generations, especially when it comes to technology. They figured out how to take TikTok and YouTube and Instagram and monetize these things. They, we know them as influencers now.

Perry Holley:
So that age of authority, I mean, they’re getting paid for their comments on social media and they’re mostly young, they’re these 20 somethings, they know how to do this. So this authority, they have a lot of authority and that age has dropped a lot. But the other side of that is.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, so I’ll take the other side, which I appreciate this, this is actually very relevant to me. This is. The age of maturity is also rising.

Perry Holley:
No, it’s going up the Age of authority is coming down younger, but the age of maturity is right, is rising.

Chris Goede:
Right. So they’re opposite, which is creating a gap that we need to talk about. And so while this younger generation is embracing and loving the use of the smart technology, they’re also maturing socially, the EQ side of things and emotionally later in life. So those EQ skills that we talk about, just taking a little bit longer for them. So when we look at the data, we find that, you know, adult responsibility begins at an older age even than what was happening just 30 years ago. And so this is where I smile when I see this. I’ve heard Tim say this for a little while now. And so when you think about it, back in the day we had younger teenagers already in the workforce working, you know, managing on the, on the front lines, doing different things even at such a young age.

Chris Goede:
But Tim says now that it’s been said that the 20 being 26 years old is the new 18 years old. So you know what I thought about when I saw that that means for me, right, that means I have a 16 and a 14 year old at home right now. Both have graduated from college or and making their way in the world. I’m like, oh my goodness. But you know, more and more this is happening for many, many reasons. But more young adults are living with their parents well past graduation. And in one survey, this is fascinating, of 16 to 24 year olds, they didn’t really even declare that they were an adult or in adulthood until after they had their first child. My goodness, I know what happened to me after I had my first child.

Chris Goede:
Right. And so the average parent age today is 27 years old when they give birth to their first child. So that’s saying, so now I’m not really an adult until I’m 27 or 28 years. Just different ways of thinking and kind of where they’re at from a maturing standpoint.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. So they have a lot more authority, but a lot less security. Yeah. This means that Gen Z, if you think about this in the workplace from a recent college, you know, from college graduates, they’re going to need coaching that the earlier generations when they graduated college would need. Yeah, they come into the workforce, they’re going to need coaching on some of these maturity things, but not on the influence.

Chris Goede:
Right.

Perry Holley:
They actually may be able to help you coach. They can help coach some of the other generations, the older generations. And Tim talks about reverse mentoring a lot as an opportunity to have there. The more engaged this Gen Z teammate is, I find it avoids that appearance of being unmotivated. So I have a couple of ideas that I’m working with Tim. We’ve been able to stay close with him and his thinking and really, it’s influenced me a lot. But he talks about provide meaning as well as money and that Gen Z people say they’re really driven on meaning and purpose. Well, they do like money too, and so don’t think you can.

Perry Holley:
You’re going to need to make it. And that they’re tied. What they do is tied to the larger mission of the company. What’s going on? And I’m finding that this is not, again, not just for Gen Z, this is for everybody should know what their purpose is and why are they a part of what you’re doing and are they meaningfully working toward a bigger goal? And that if you ensure how your mission and products serve the community around them, then that’s what they want. They want meaning. So motivation comes a lot from do I have a purpose and am I doing something relevant and meaningful to do that?

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Chris Goede:
Reminds me when you’re talking about it’s not just this generation, because we’re just using this as a placeholder as we’re talking about the importance of leading. We say this all the time. Doesn’t matter, the industry, doesn’t matter. Your age. We’re in the people business. Right? And so these principles that we’re sharing with you, they may be bent a little bit towards different generations with Tim’s help, but they’re still solid leadership principles that we would encourage for you to have, you know, with anybody. And you know, they’re coming in with a view of, of managers or as leaders of people telling them what to do, not necessarily listening. And so I love this.

Chris Goede:
The next one we want to suggest is how do you Implement a listen, empathize and then guide policy. You can do it, you can call it leg if you want to, L, E. G. But it’s just something to remember, help you remember it, make it sticky. But it’s really, you know, listen to them so that they feel heard. Right. Perry, you’ve heard Perry talk about all the time around maximal leadership. It’s like they want to be, we believe people, all people, seen, valued and heard, seen.

Chris Goede:
They want to be seen, they want to be valued, they want to heard. Same with this generation. Empathize with them so that they know that they’re, they’re understood right. And so that you necessarily are connecting with them in a way that they go, oh man, he or she, they get it, they understand me. And then guide them. So how do you earn the right to then guide them? By doing those first two things the right way.

Perry Holley:
When you think about that, you, you listen to me, you empathize with my position and what I’m going through and then that you earn the right to, to speak into my life.

Chris Goede:
That’s right.

Perry Holley:
I don’t just walk up, say, hey, what do you think about my life? No, if I don’t think you’re listening to me, you don’t care about me. You don’t. You putting yourself in my position, you think I’m a snowflake or I’m fragile, I’m not going to let you. So I think the leg strategy is a good one. There another one we talked a bit last week around were they not wanting to be in leadership? Was are we providing them? But they are big into wanting to be developed. So personal development, so continuous learning and growth opportunities are enormous for this generation. They should be for all. But these young ones, they’ve been brought up to, they have access to all information.

Perry Holley:
They’ve been on the Internet since birth and they know how to get things and how to learn things. So the data reveals that they really want to develop professionally and personally. So if you are one that provides that. So they’re an organization that feels like we have purpose. We were saying I have meaning in what I’m doing. You’re. I’m growing, I’m improving. Now you’re hitting on two of the three I know biggest components of motivation, internal, intrinsic, driving you personally, motivation.

Perry Holley:
Right away, you’re overcoming some of this appearance that they’re not, they’re not unmotivated. We’re not giving them what they need.

Chris Goede:
That’s exactly right. Moving on to the next one. Tim says, hey, describe, don’t Prescribe and you think about that. There’s a couple of things that I think are beneficial with this as you are leading the Gen Z in this discussion. Right. So what you want to do is you. You, when possible, you want to embody the descriptive, not the prescriptive of leadership. This is a good principle no matter what generation.

Chris Goede:
Right. Like, Perry was just talking all about level two skill set a minute ago, and I about jumped in and wanted to start talking about five levels. And so, you know, oftentimes when we’re leading younger teammates, we want to tell them each step of the way, hey, go do this, then come back and I’ll give you your next clue. Right.

Perry Holley:
Like, go do this and that and.

Chris Goede:
Then do this versus being able to say, here is where we’re going, here’s what we’re trying to accomplish. Two things. One, how would you go about it? Or two, go about and get it done with a lot of autonomy. I always love to use the how would you go about this? Because it helps me begin to understand how an individual thinks. I don’t ever want to prescribe right away. I want to learn how they’re thinking, give them freedom, maybe adjust their thinking in a little bit if it’s off mission or off purpose. But other than that, you got to let them go. But it begins to educate you as their leader on what that looks like and so develop that as a mutual goal and then let them own it.

Chris Goede:
You could also use the 10, 80, 10. Hey, here’s where I’m. Here’s where I’m going. Here’s what I’m thinking is what I’m going to accomplish. Let them run with 80% of it. When you get to 90% mark, come back and I’m going to help you with the final 10.

Perry Holley:
As an older generation, I’m renowned for, I’ll tell you the prescription.

Chris Goede:
That’s right.

Perry Holley:
I’ll tell you what to do. You go do it. And what I. And he’s exactly right. Now I say, here’s what we’re thinking about doing. How would you do it?

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Do you have a point of view?

Perry Holley:
I do, but let me hear your point of view first. Yeah, I really want to know what they think. So as we work toward wrapping it up, this last thing Tim gave, I thought it’s a really nice. Another acronym like leg. A minute ago this was. He said, do you have a leg to stand on? So a leg is continuing that. But he talks about a leg.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, I like that.

Perry Holley:
Yes. No, I didn’t make that if you have a leg to stand on with.

Chris Goede:
Your gin, make sure you download the learner guide today. You’re going to want to see this A leg on there.

Perry Holley:
So the A stands for ask questions. Too often, as I said, as a older generation person, I tend to tell and I’m telling, telling, telling. And they think that they’re accusing them of being ignorant or something, but no. So instead of offering all the answers, I’m Tim saying maybe we should start with some questioning and the questions might be, you know, what were your thought processes that led to the decision if they do something that you don’t understand, instead of jumping in and telling them how they should have done it, ask them how did you envision the outcomes differently from what you accomplished? How are you feeling about the project? What would you do differently the next time? Would you be open to some ideas or some suggestions? Using the ask versus the tell really gets you off to a great start with them.

Chris Goede:
And then the L when you ask that question, make sure you listen well. Right? None of us ever like to be in a conversation where we are asked the question and then you can just tell somebody’s not really listening. Well, and this is where the curiosity comes in, man. Be curious about how they’re answering that question and make sure that your responses to them are in alignment with what you’re hearing and very genuine. And I think when you do that, I think that will allow each team member to feel heard. And when they can feel heard, which is one of our seen value heard, what’s going to end up happening is they’re going to collaborate with you and you guys are going to be able to work together and respond to a challenge far greater than if you didn’t. So funny.

Perry Holley:
I was on with an executive this morning and on a coaching call and he said, I held a session and I told him, listen, don’t expect any answers, don’t expect any solutions. I just want to hear from you. I’m just going to listen, I’m going to take some notes. Want to hear from you. I got a couple questions and he said it was so energizing because they, he actually uncovered a major problem that they had that he had not heard them say in previous because he wasn’t listening and they were trying to tell him but he just wouldn’t hear. He said when he went into active listening and tried not to be in solution mode, he started hearing for the first time. So I thought it’s really going. So you ask the questions, you listen well, the, the E in A leg is empathize deeply and the part of the sequence is vital.

Perry Holley:
Younger generations often perceive that. The older generations, that would be you and me, baby boomers and Gen Xers. We lack empathy. I don’t know what that’s all about, but yeah, empathy is really meant to build a bridge rather than a wall between two parties. Is that. Can you just see it from their point of view? Can you see where it’s coming from? So I ask questions, I listen, I empathize with where you’re coming from. And that gets me to the next one.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. And the final one here in a leg is to guide wisely. And so once we’ve asked questions, we’ve listened well, we’ve empathized deeply with them. Now we’ve earned our right to speak from personal stories, testimonies, weight right than a position versus my position. Again, what I love about this is if you do level two properly, you’re going to earn their right to lead them. They’re going to give you permission to lead them. And this is 100% what you’re saying right here. And so our influence now comes from that connection piece and building a relationship with them, not because I am manager or I am leader.

Chris Goede:
So as we wrap up, here’s the thing. We used Gen Z as an example, but as we’re walking through this, both Perry and I, we’re speaking the five levels language. Do you have a common language for leadership inside your team, inside your organization? I think if you have a common language and there’s clarity around that, then you’ll be able to communicate deeper and at a faster pace that will be received by all generations. And so we use this as a, as a model today. But it’s deeper than that. I should encourage you, man, study the levels of leadership, especially if you feel like you’re not connecting with some of the leadership. Maybe it’s a different generation, maybe it’s an older generation than you and you’re leaving. The principles work either way.

Chris Goede:
And I want to encourage you to dive back into that content and apply it.

Perry Holley:
And don’t stereotype your ginger as unmotivated. Because if you’re not doing the things that they need to fulfill them and put them in a place of relevance in your organization. Great conversation. As a reminder, Chris said, if you want that learner guy, which has some of these acronyms and things we talked about today, you can get [email protected] podcast. You can also learn more about our offerings. You can also leave us a question or a comment we love hearing from you and very grateful you’d spend this time with us today. That’s all from the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast.

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