Executive Podcast #325: How Can You Be More Approachable?

Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast, where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley, a Maxwell Leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
My name is Chris Goede. I’m executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining. As we get started, I want to encourage you. Go to maxwellleadership.com/podcast. Click on this podcast. There’ll be a form that’ll pop up. And if you’re interested in learning more about the five levels of leadership inside organizations, whether it’s from a training perspective, a coaching perspective, we would love for you to submit your name there.

Chris Goede:
Just put five levels in that form and our team will follow back up with you. Well, today’s topic is titled how can you be more approachable and what I love. Again, you’ve heard us say this. This is straight from the field. This is coaching front lines. Coaching where this is a conversation. This is a question that we’re getting asked and helping leaders walk through this. And so we’re going to just share a little bit about some of our thoughts around how.

Chris Goede:
How can you be more approachable as a leader?

Perry Holley:
I’m trying to decide why it’s come up lately. Is. Is this from, you know, during the COVID years? 2021, some of 22, lots of irregular things going on. Everybody trying to survive and get their.

Chris Goede:
Business guarded, not of accessible.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, business overwhelmingly good for most of the people we coach. They, you know, Covid made them do some things that made business good, some not, but most good. But now we’re back. Uh, 2023 was the starting point. 2024, now we’re back to the rush and hurry, the whirlwind of pressing for results and things. And I’m. I’m guessing that may be what it. But I’m hearing more and more on coaching calls.

Perry Holley:
They said I just wrote a few of these down. My team doesn’t come to me. Actually, I just read on the Maxwell Daily Reader. If you don’t do the Maxwell Daily Reader, you should get that. It’s a two minutes a day little note from John and it’s really a fantastic way to share something with your team.

Chris Goede:
By the way, speaking of that, one of our avid listeners is. I think it’s Porta. Brian. Brian. Brian Porter. I don’t know, but it’s amazing. We’ve been up for some meetings and they really do. I thought it was just maybe for show.

Chris Goede:
And they just told us that they did this. But it is a big organization and they are performers and they’re producers. They have a great culture. But every day their meetings start out with the Daily Reader. So I love that because it’s a great little way to just. To begin to shape the culture of what’s important.

Perry Holley:
And one of the readings this week was John Maxwell asked the question, do people tell you hard things? And I thought, yeah, that’s kind of how it started with me years ago was I realized I’m the last to know. Nobody’s coming to me either at home, you know, teenager got in trouble and I don’t know, or at work, you know, sales was dropped or a sale was lost, and I’m the last to know. And so these guys were telling me, I’m always the last to know. I’m not sure they trust me. I’m not sure they like me. All kinds of things. And it really got me. To me, the word that we’re looking for here is are you approachable?

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And what makes someone approachable? So that’s where I kind of picked in some of my ideas here.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, there’s a couple things that come to mind. One is there’s a statement that Mark Cole had learned from. From John and had shared it with me several times, which is, are you wanting to lead more than you’re liked, or do you want to be liked more than you want to lead? And there’s a way to go about doing it, and that’s what you’re talking about. You can be liked and lead. You just gotta make sure you’re approachable in your leadership style. And so, you know, what does this mean? It means creating an environment where your team feels extremely comfortable and open, sharing their thoughts, their point of view, their concerns, their ideas. It’s a collaborative event, knowing that we might not always agree, but we will leave in alignment because they have been heard and their voice has been heard, or I have been heard. So it can go either way.

Chris Goede:
And so, you know, I’ve always thought of this approachable thing as just being friendly. The back to you. And I just, you know, level two connection. It’s like, hey, just someone to talk to. But back to what you just talked about in the Daily Reader. You know, I. I recall John asking a question a little bit different than that, which is, when was the last time someone brought you bad news or maybe something they’re struggling with or whatever it might be, maybe they strongly disagreed with your point of view in a meeting on an issue or confronted you about something that maybe you did wrong. If it has been a while since you’ve had that type of conversation, you might not be as approachable as you think.

Chris Goede:
And I thought that, man, that’s so true. Let me take an inventory. And what types of conversations am I having with my team or my family, to your point, even at home? And are we having conversations that aren’t always fun to have? I know the intent behind it, but, man, if we are and if you are having them, then you’re approachable.

Perry Holley:
Well, this is all about improving your people skills and your relational skills. And I. I’ll just give a shout out. I’ve really enjoyed following Vanessa Van Edwards on Science of People. If you don’t know, she got a couple of books and her website. Just following her Instagram is enough to give you some tips on things. But I. I’ve been kind of keeping track of some of her.

Perry Holley:
Her notes, is putting them with some of mine. And I just really. I think some of these be helpful, so I hope they are for you. But the first one I like, I think I got from her was keep up. And it sounds. I like little catchy things that it makes me remember that to say, if your head’s down, you’re literally and figuratively closing yourself off to others. And are you. Do you have.

Perry Holley:
Are you looking up and looking around? Are you making eye contact? It’s a body language thing that makes you appear more approachable. That if you imagine you walking by your boss and they got to have their head down and looking at their shoes or got their head in something else or whatever. Yeah. I am not feeling that I can approach you on that. So I think it makes. It’s a strong signal that you’re aware you’re present, you’re open to interaction with others. And I just think it was a simple little statement that really resonates with me.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. The next one I want to talk about is, I want to start by saying you always make people feel something. Right. We talk about that. So what is it that you’re making them feel? And if you don’t have the answer for that right away, I want to encourage you to start smiling. That’s the next one. How do you smile? And you know, we’ve talked about this and, and I do this now just because he’s a mentor and a friend of mine. We’re not talking about this crazy thing of walking through the airport making people smile at you, which I do now because of Perry, Holly, and I force People to smile at me.

Chris Goede:
It’s a little awkward at times. Like, I really don’t want to smile at you, but I’m going to because you won’t stop looking.

Perry Holley:
Are you turn the other way in the elevator yet? Are you facing people?

Chris Goede:
Not yet, but I do need to.

Perry Holley:
Do that and smile.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. This is his influence and coaching on me. On me, folks. But just making brief eye contact with them and offering, you know, a smile to those that catch your eye will not only kind of warm up the room, but it also makes you feel extremely approachable. I tend to do this with the right motive. I like connecting with people, but I’ve noticed that when I go up to situations. Let’s use the airport for an example. And let’s just say maybe the flight has an issue, just like last week, and I’m way delayed, and then all of a sudden I’m put on the middle of the night flight.

Chris Goede:
All these things, they happen, right? But I know if I go up to the desk and I don’t have a smile on my face, what do you think is going to happen? Yeah, they don’t want to talk to me, Right? And so it’s like, hey, smile on your face, man. It’s good to see you. Quick eye contact, depending on the agent, sometimes they do it back. But it’s just. It makes both of you approachable, and I find that the conversations become more productive and constructive. If you just do that and approach it that way, you become more approachable. And then in turn, once they smile, if something happens when they smile, then they become more approachable.

Perry Holley:
Well, it’s a mirror reflex. It’s built in us from birth. And when you smile at others, they usually smile back because they can’t control themselves. But I was told by someone that cared about me that I was intimidating, and it hurt my feelings. The last thing I want to be as a leader is I don’t want to be intimidating or as a father, intimidating people in my home or at the office. And then they said, but, Perry, you’re a different person when you smile. I know. We all are.

Perry Holley:
And if you would just mind your face, and you’ll become more approachable almost instantly.

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Perry Holley:
Third one’s gonna sound like duh, but keep your phone in your pocket. This is killing so many relationships and killing so much people. Coming up to us and being able to talk to us is. I’ve always got this device in my hand and I think just clutching your phone as if it’s some sort of security blank, better lifeline is not a great way to be. So I’ve really started practicing putting it in my pocket. But the other day I just, I left it in my car when I was going in for a meeting. Now I did twitch a little bit later because I thought, am I missing, you know, something? Because I am used to looking at it, but I didn’t have any. I watched the person I was meeting with twice.

Perry Holley:
They just reached over and flipped the phone up to see if they had any. Missed anything. Made me feel bad.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
Or less important or something like that. I won’t think, well, they didn’t have to. I made them feel valued because I stayed focused the whole time on them.

Chris Goede:
I think this is a little bit of a squirrel trail. I think the same thing happens even a little bit worse with our eye watches. Right.

Perry Holley:
Like, mind your wrist.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, mind your wrist. And we’ve talked about this before and it’s one of the reasons why I don’t have one because I already have an issue, you know, with what’s, what’s going on. My phone, things they got. And then if I have it on my phone going off, I’m surely going to be doing that. So just think about the connection with the people. John Maxwell suggests using the 30 second rule. And that simply says that within the first 30 seconds of any conversation, do or say something to encourage the person that you’re talking with. Troy Cathy, the great founder of Chick Fil A.

Chris Goede:
Right. How do you know if somebody needs encouragement if they’re breathing? Right. So all of us, even if you say, I don’t need anybody, yes, we all need some type of encouragement. And so try to do that within the first 30 seconds. It makes you extremely approachable.

Perry Holley:
Also. You want to be approachable, Be an approacher.

Chris Goede:
Ah, it’s good.

Perry Holley:
I love this because don’t leave it to everybody else.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
John teaches that leaders initiate leaders. Don’t sit back and wait for others to approach them. You know, you can be an approacher as well. And so when. When you’re the one to break the ice, you not only give permission for others to approach you, but you make social interactions less daunting by you being the one that starts the conversation. So if you’re sitting back, well, I don’t feel approachable because no one’s approaching me. Then try going out to the people. Don’t make the people come to you.

Chris Goede:
That’s good. Find common ground. This makes you extremely approachable. It’s like saying, hey, we’re on. We’re on the same team. I’ll never forget a couple years ago, I was leading an event where we had an activity that we marketed that it was with the Navy SEALs and that we were going to do some activities with them. Now, the group that I had out there, about 120 people, not many of them should ever think about trying to train with the Navy seals. So the night before, John pulls me aside and he said, chris, I want to coach you on a couple things.

Chris Goede:
I was like, man, give it to me, right? Let’s talk about it. He goes, so tomorrow I feel like there are going to be people in the room that are very uneasy, and we may not get the participation we want because they may feel like it’s only them. They may not express their concerns or frustrations. And so here’s what I want you to do. And he coached me, and it was awesome. He’s like, the first thing I want you to do is get up there and go, hey, how many of you are. Are concerned about what we might do tomorrow? Because I know I am, and immediately get on the same ground with them. And it alleviated a lot of tension in the room.

Chris Goede:
And all of a sudden, after I did my little spiel for a little while and talked through what we were going to be doing, it made me very approachable. When I came off the stage and everybody came up and said, man, thanks for doing that. What do you think about this? Or, hey, I’m struggling with this right now, with this health issue. What do you think about? And all of a sudden, it opened up the dialogue because I immediately went up there and this is pure John Communicator coaching me. He’s like, yeah, man, go up there and just put everybody at ease and get on common ground and say, yeah, look. Look at this. I’m not getting out There with the Navy seals either. Just.

Chris Goede:
It was a great. I’ll never forget, it was a great coaching moment. But you got to find common ground. When you do that, shared interest, histories, values, whatever it might be, then you are going to be able to connect with them. You’re going to be approachable. John has another thing around. You know, the law of common ground is around, hey, find that 1% and go 100% in on that. There’s got to be 1% of something that’s common between you and everybody and whatever that Is, then go 100 in on that, at least initially, and there’ll be a great connection between the two.

Perry Holley:
That’s a great story. I was thinking as you’re talking the. You’re talking about common ground, but you’re also. This is not on my list of how to be approachable is being more vulnerable.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, that’s good.

Perry Holley:
And I’m just. As you’re talking about, you were being vulnerable about how many of you feel this and how many you feel that. That. Wow. And John is so good at this, too. He says, are people near you saying, so what? Or me too? And if you, if you’re communicating with people and they roll their eyes, so what? You’re like, you’re perfect. You got it all together. I’m the only one that’s feeling, you know, fat out of shape with the Navy seals telling me, let’s go run in the sand.

Perry Holley:
No, me too.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
So you, by being vulnerable, you. You show that authenticity that makes people. It’s very attractive. People want to be near you because they say, oh, yeah, me too. I can, I relate to that.

Chris Goede:
So that’s good.

Perry Holley:
The last one I had was adopt to an everyone is interesting policy is that every person in the universe has unique experiences, perspectives, and knowledge. There’s so much you can learn from other people, and actually you can learn something from every person. And one of my favorite. This quote from Dale Carnegie changed everything for me because I was renowned for. For trying to be the most interesting man in the world. You know, people wanted to talk about my travel. They wanted to talk about what countries I’ve been to. They wanted to talk about.

Perry Holley:
And I loved it, and I loved being interesting. And then Dale Carnegie taught me in the. How to win friends and influence people to. Well, the quote actually says you can win more friends in two weeks by being interested in them than you can in two years by trying to get them interested in you.

Chris Goede:
That’s good.

Perry Holley:
My little catchphrase for that was, or Perry, be interested not Interesting.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And it’s hard, but if you want to be approachable when you’re with people, stop trying to be interesting.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
Because if you’re the boss, they want to, hey, boss, when did you do this? And you’ll say, Thursday. How about you? And you turn it back as quickly as possible to them. So now make it like a sport of you. You might throw me a question, but I’m not going to go on. Like, I want to. Trust me, I want to be interesting, but I’m need to be interested in you. And the more people feel like they’re interesting to you, the more they’re drawn to you in.

Chris Goede:
And I think what you’re hearing Perry say is that he’s learned this behavior with the right motive on why he’s doing it. Right. He’s not doing it to increase their influence with them. So that down the road, yeah, it’s like, no, no, no. I mean, I care about people. I want to add value to people. And so the motive is pure and all that we’re talking about here so that you are more approachable. As I wrap up, I want to share two things in regards to a way that this has challenged me again, to think about being approachable with all the things that go on in your life and my life and as busy as we are, and technology and schedules and all kinds of stuff.

Chris Goede:
The old phrase used to be management by walking around. Right. Mbwa. Right. Like, so as leaders, the team, are you doing that? Are you. Are you walking around? And are you doing some of the things that Perry laid out here for us with your body language, with the questions, with the. All those things, if you’re going to do it by walking around, making sure that you are intentionally doing it for the right reason with the right motive and doing it. The other thing that you hear John say a ton, and this is along the same lines, is to walk slowly through the crowd.

Chris Goede:
I get focused, I got an agenda and I’m moving. And especially at events or whatnot. And I will just walk very quickly. And to Perry’s point earlier, sometimes with my head down right through a crowd and missed so many opportunities. And I had a peer and a friend of mine call me out one time, and it. It really shook me because he’s like, hey, you okay? Like, I saw you the other day at this event, and I saw you three times walk through the foyer and not once slow down to talk to anybody. You were on your phone, you had your head down, whatever. And I was like, yeah, we’re in the people business.

Chris Goede:
And I just walk by my business. Like, I just walk by everything that I’m. I care. I care about and care for. And so, yeah, do the management by walking around, but also walk slowly through the crowd, and it’ll be amazing. Especially if you’re smiling, how approachable you are. Tip.

Perry Holley:
Though. There are times I’m thinking what we’re at. We do a lot of events around event. There’s a lot of people.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And we both were. If you’re on stage, people know you and they want to say hi and that’s. And you want to be approachable. I want people to speak week. But you’re trying to get through. You can’t stop and talk to, you know, 20 people. Tips for, you know, it’s still acknowledging, I think, is that the right. You know, what do you think about it?

Chris Goede:
Yeah, it’s a good question. I do it a lot.

Perry Holley:
Heads down and ignoring. I’ll move fast, but to look up and have my head up. But I can’t talk now.

Chris Goede:
Yes, I. That’s exactly right. I. I will focus on keeping my head up, smiling, making eye contact, waving, you know, like, hey, look forward to connecting up.

Perry Holley:
You do that. Call me.

Chris Goede:
I don’t do that. Oh, gosh. If you guys see us on YouTube, you’d be like, those are two old guys. What’s going on? Call me. But those that I do actually then stop for. They stop me. They want to talk. You know, I’m very honest.

Chris Goede:
Right. Like, so excited to see you. And I am. I want to connect with you. I do. I gotta run right now. And I just. I’m.

Chris Goede:
I just, you know, I’m honest in a way that is very. Not direct, not vulnerable, but it’s just very honest. Right. Like. And they get it. They understand. They know what’s going on. They understand it.

Chris Goede:
It’s much better to do that. Smile, acknowledge, keep walking, you know, fast. Hey, you know, I’d love to connect you later. If they do stop, you have that conversation. Just be very honest. Say, man, it’s so good to see you. I gotta run to this meeting. If I get time, I’d love to come back and connect with you or whatever.

Chris Goede:
Let’s connect on a different day. I think that is still showing that you’re approachable and they know that you have an agenda. I think if you do it over and over and over and over again, then it becomes a pattern. And they’re like, this is weird. So maybe then you even plan some strategic time where you may have some extra time and then you’re just wandering through there, you know, smiling and walking slowly and being able to stop.

Perry Holley:
And I think that’s what walking slowly through the crowd means. You know, not on the day when I’ve got 12 meetings. Yeah, one of my meetings is walking slowly through the crowd.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, put it on the calendar. I know our lead, one of our leaders, Chris Robb, who is very sought after and some of our biggest fans, he schedules time where he is just with the people. That’s his whole goal. So there’s ways around it then and still be coming across as approachable then.

Perry Holley:
Not good stuff, Chris. Thank you. And as a reminder, if you’d like to learn more about our offerings or get the learner guide for this episode, or even learn about our other podcast offerings, you can do all that at Maxwell Leadership. You can also leave us a comment or a question there. We love hearing from you. Very grateful you’d spend this time with us. That’s all today from the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast.

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