Executive Podcast #330: Filling In Your Leadership Pipeline

Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast, where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley a Maxwell leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
And I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining. I don’t know about you, but often I think about what does my leadership pipeline look like, who am I developing, who is on the team, who is. Oftentimes we go into meetings and we.

Perry Holley:
Wonder the same thing about you.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, I bet you have. Oftentimes the question will be, if you were not here, who’s sitting in your seat? And I’m like, why are you asking, right? Like, is there something that I don’t know? Well, we’re going to talk about that today. We’re going to talk about filling your leadership pipeline. This is an essential focus that needs to be happening on leaders and teams around the world. And Perry has put together some content, no doubt, from what we are hearing in the field of men and women that are just saying, man, I need to be doing a better job of filling my leadership pipeline. What does that look like? So as we get started, just a reminder, if you’re looking for someone to do some leadership coaching, maybe there’s some content that you need in regards to developing your emerging leaders so that you do have a pipeline and we can help you with that. I want to encourage you to visit maxwellleadership.com/podcast there. If you click on this podcast, you’ll be able to fill out a form and then we’ll get back in touch with you as soon as possible.

Chris Goede:
Well, this is something that, as I just mentioned, we are hearing in the field. You are hearing about it, um, probably daily on your coaching calls or when you’re in front of a client. I was with a client yesterday, and they talked about, what does their pipeline look like? How are we going to get some younger leaders up in here that will be able to take our. Our jobs as we move through? And so this is something that, as leaders, we need to be thinking about. We need to be developing leaders and going through that process. That is part of what our role is. So with conscious unbossing, which we did, we did a podcast on that several months ago, the great Detach, the Quiet quitting, we are finding it very difficult to find the needles in the haystack that are saying, hey, I want to be a part of this. I want to be developed.

Chris Goede:
And so that’s what we’re going to talk about today. We’re going to give you some thoughts and keys around that. So, Perry, appreciate you bringing this to us.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, no, it is coming up on coaching calls, when I ask what is your succession plan or how are you generating your next generation of leaders? They don’t really have good answers for that. And John says that leadership is more developed than discovered and that you’re going to have to take some intentionality in that. And I have my own personal experience, maybe your as well, is that sometimes natural leaders, natural leadership kind of bubbles to the top. You might have some people that exhibit some tendencies for leadership that you notice. But my further experience was even that has to be developed and purposefully put to use to get them ready for when that time arrives. Most of the leaders I’m talking to are not, well, two things. Either they, they say, yes, I should be doing that, I just don’t have the time. Or that’s not my job.

Perry Holley:
It’s somebody else in the. Or it’s our L and D department, learning and developments doing that or whatever. No, no, that’s, that’s is a leader’s responsibility is. We call it level four and you need to be growing more leaders.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. You know, as a leader we, we talk about the fact that you need to not only be growing your influence, that’s where it starts. Perry just mentioned the five levels leadership. Right. It starts at level one. We talk a lot about self awareness and then what does your influence look like? Also as leaders, we need to lead change, we need to lead productivity, we need to make sure that we’re hitting our KPIs. And then right next to it, not far off, is we need to be growing more leaders inside our organization. When we talk about the five levels and Perry mentioned level four, when you get to level five, one of the things we like to talk about this level is that you’re sitting back, you’re adding value to those that you have led for so long because then they’re developing leaders and you’ve just become this expert at developing and growing more leaders.

Chris Goede:
And that’s ultimately what we need to be doing. Some of us might be on a larger scale, some of us might be, it might be just one on one and who the next person is. And so we need to find and develop leaders. So we’re going to talk about that.

Perry Holley:
Well, the starting point is really for me knows, how do you see people and how do you, when you look at the people on your team, what do you see and if you don’t have a belief system that people have potential, people have the ability to grow and learn, you’re going to have a hard time actually developing other people. So I think good leaders believe that everyone, no matter who he or she is, have value of some kind. And so I’m looking for ways to, in my one on ones with you, in my time getting to know you and watching you and your work, I’m looking for signs that say, yes, what is, what is your strength? Where are your potentials? And then, you know, we talked, you mentioned the term consciousness unbossing, where some of the youngers are saying, I don’t want to be in leadership. There will always be those that say they want to be in leadership, but maybe they don’t even know what that means. And so I have a real open mind about I want to see the potential in others and then take it as my job, my goal to develop your potential. Does it end up in a leadership position? Maybe. Does it not? You still need to be leading with your influence. So it’s not a title I want you developing.

Perry Holley:
So this idea of developing others, no matter if they go into management leadership or not, it starts with how I see you.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. And it goes back to what we define as leadership, which is influence. And ultimately, if I’m going to grow my influence with you, Perry, whether you get a role down the road or not, the fact that I’m working to connect with you, to produce and win and then to add value to you, that’s part of the process of development. I love what you said as we kicked it off. You said that leadership is developed more than it is discovered. Right. And that’s key because if you could look at somebody, I could think about somebody on my team right now, like I see the individual. But what I really want to do is think about developing the individual and see the potential, not the current position that they’re sitting in.

Chris Goede:
As they’re sitting in a certain position, I couldn’t necessarily just discover them as a particular leader. They’re going to need a lot of development to be able to do that. So see the potential, not the current position that they’re sitting in. So I’m going to give you some phrases. Perry gave me some here that I was smiling as I was reading them because I’ve been around John a long time. John Maxwell has several different sayings around this. John has the ultimate belief in people. So much so we said he can no longer hire out here.

Chris Goede:
And Mark Cole is not far behind him. Because he just, man, when you talk about, you know, what, what is it that you see in people? He has a saying where he puts a 10 on people’s heads at all times. And I’m grateful for it because when I was 23, I did not have a 10 in my leadership development and where I was, but he put a 10 on my head. He saw you there and he saw me that way. That’s right. So I love that he is. Saw me that way. He says look for gold, not dirt.

Chris Goede:
Okay, we’re going to leave that there.

Perry Holley:
You’re going to a mine.

Chris Goede:
100, go ahead.

Perry Holley:
Well, you can, you can see all. But no, I’m looking for the gold here. Looking for everybody’s got dirt.

Chris Goede:
That’s right.

Perry Holley:
But let’s, let’s look for the. With the good part, the gold.

Chris Goede:
That’s good.

Perry Holley:
I like that one a lot.

Chris Goede:
And then I like this one, which is take note of what people do. Well, that’s a big indicator for me as I’m looking at emerging leaders. I’m looking at leaders coming up. What is it that maybe differentiates them from others that they do really well? I think that’s something to keep an eye out for and then finally do what you can to help them realize a better future. There is a belief deficit. We’ve talked a lot about this where people, not only in leaders, but I would say even those that might be in your pipeline or those that aren’t in your pipeline have a belief deficit and can’t even really even see the future. They can’t even see their potential. I think a lot about, as we talk about our kids all the time, you’re like, oh, I can see about six steps ahead of what their potential is.

Chris Goede:
They can’t see it right now. So how do you communicate that to them? How do you value them in a way to where you can see that and then communicate it so that they believe it?

Perry Holley:
Yeah, really well. I hear on coaching calls, well, how do I know who to develop? I got all these people and I hear John in his teaching around finding your eagles and who are the ones that can soar with you. And so he outlines, and I like this. I actually made it a little spreadsheet where I could be observant over the time of being in the office with people, being on customer calls with people watching them do their jobs, watching them serve others in the department. And some of the top headings of these columns would be, if I might have Chris Goede there, I would say now is he. He Makes things happen. I’m looking for people that make things happen around here. I want people who see and seize opportunity.

Perry Holley:
They don’t. They initiate. They don’t just sit back. They see it. They go for it. And I’m looking for that. They take action. They influence the opinions and the actions of others.

Perry Holley:
You actually notice, wow, other people on the team listen to this person.

Chris Goede:
They’re starting to lead without even having a title or position. Right.

Perry Holley:
People want to know what you. What do you think? And they’re always asking that they add. They add value to others. They’re always looking for ways to lighten your load or lighten the load of others by bringing value to the table. They draw other winners toward them. They’re attractive to the team. They say, hey, you should come work on this thing. They bring people.

Perry Holley:
So you put some of these ideas together and you say, I’m just. I’m observing on the team. What is it, the qualities of the leaders we want on this team? And do I see people taking initiative in their daily actions that I might come alongside them and say, I’d like to take you the next level?

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

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Chris Goede:
I love your last one about drawing people towards them. You know, we talk about the fact that we attract who we are, not who we want. And so when you see people that are attracting winners, then oftentimes that’s something that you would want in your pipeline. As we continue this list, they equip others. Just naturally. They’re already beginning to equip others. They have the influence, as Perry mentioned, but now they’re even just organically equipping them. They offer their ideas to help the organization.

Chris Goede:
We call this discretionary thinking at times and effort. Right. It’s like, hey, Perry, you and Chris would do a great job at a podcast, but what if you did this or what, if you did that, just because they are thinking about the business for you, this is a great one where they just have uncommonly a great attitude. Like, I want people with a great attitude on my team. I think also when you’re going through this, that attitude and one of the things you need to be watching for, whether it’s in a spreadsheet, as Perry mentioned, or another place, is it allows you to really assess their EQ at an early age. Again, we know that there’s potential there, but there’s some foundation of you. Do they have self awareness? Is there any empathy in there? What, what do you see that people are attracted to? Another one is, are they living up to their commitments and their responsibilities? This is, are they producing? You have to not only commit to stuff, but then you got to be responsible for what you committed to and produce. And then finally they show fierce loyalty to the organization and the leader.

Chris Goede:
For me, this right, this last one right here that we just mentioned to you, this talks about, we see great alignment with the core values of the organization. If they are, they have that loyalty to the organization, then they are oftentimes aligned with the DNA of, of the organization and of the values. And I think that’s super, super important. So, hey, I know you talked about this all the time where leadership is caught, right? More than it is taught.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, Caught, not taught.

Chris Goede:
People do what people see.

Perry Holley:
Right?

Chris Goede:
So how many of these characteristics right here do you personally exhibit? Now, I may not be putting Perry on the spot here, maybe I am. But those that are listening and taking this to their team, I think this ought to be a self reflection question. This ought to be a maybe a team. I know there’s a lot of you out there that are listening and watching that. You tell Perry and I all the time, man, I have my team listen to this. I had a guy yesterday who’s like, I don’t like podcasts, but part of this prerequisite, this class, I had to listen to five podcasts with you and Perry. He said, you know what I love about it, Perry? Well, that was the second one. The second one was Perry.

Chris Goede:
Okay? The first one was, he goes, it’s less than 20 minutes. He goes, I love it. 18 to 20 minutes. He said, this is so me. He’s like, I had to listen to all five before I came to this training. So last night I started on level one and I thought, I’m going to be here for five hours getting ready because I waited too long. He said, I was done in an hour. And I said, I’ll tell you what, if you listen to it on 2xp like I do a lot, it’s even faster.

Chris Goede:
And so are you living this out and have that conversation? Let me come back to saying listen to with your team and self reflecting that question. How many of these characteristics do you personally exhibit and are you modeling? Because as Perry always says, it’s caught more than your taught.

Perry Holley:
I’m telling you this. It’s a great question for all of us to ask is that while I am the leader, looking at my team to develop the next generation of leader, am I also looking up to my boss? Is my boss willing to develop me and am I exhibiting any. Am I making things happen? Am I seizing opportunities? Am I influencing the opinions? Am I adding value? I mean, just go through the list and say, no, I don’t seize opportunities. I’m so. I’m. I’m just treading water here. Well, that’s, that’s what everybody does. Can you take it to the next level to do that? Well, this all reminds me, and I think we can wrap up with this piece, but about the three essentials of leader development.

Perry Holley:
The first one was around the they’re all three E’s. Environment. Are you producing an environment, promoting an environment for leadership development? In my mind, you can speak to this as well. But kind of what we do here is that we expect each other to be developing ourselves. We expect you to be doing some reading, some developing, some classes, some education, something to develop yourself. But we expect it. You don’t come in here and just think, well, you can just get by. No, we’re all trying to grow and get better.

Perry Holley:
The environment, it’s a culture of continuous improvement.

Chris Goede:
I love that. It’s a culture of it that’s key to it. Matter of fact, in our interview processes. Oftentimes we’ll throw a question out in the first interview. Hey, what are you reading? What are you learning? That tells you a lot. Now we just, it’s because it’s part of our culture and our environment. The second essential is equipping. Now when we equip people, we.

Chris Goede:
I know it’s a commitment by your leader. It’s going to take time. It’s time sensitive. But man, I promise you this investment is worth the return. John wrote a book called the Leader’s Greatest Return. Fantastic book. It’s not about the financial return, it’s about the return. Investing in people.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. About developing people. And so we, we often hear too, you know, people are like, I don’t want to invest in and develop my people because then I’m going to lose them. And so sometimes we’ll say, well, the alternative is a whole lot worse, which is you don’t do anything, you don’t develop them and they stay on your team.

Perry Holley:
That’s right.

Chris Goede:
And most people have heard that saying, you don’t want them staying on your team, but you need to invest in and train your people. And I promise you, that is a big thing. I was talking to again, a leader yesterday about the importance of the up and coming generations. So important for them to make a decision on their career placement of how are you going to develop me? You know, what is, what does that look like? And so if you’re doing that real quick, as in this equipping part, and it’s going to build not just a better individual, which may be equipping, but it’s going to build a stronger team, like, they’re going to sense that. They’re going to feel that as you were talking about, caught, you know, versus versus taught. And not only that, but then as a leader, you’re modeling for them what you expect them to be doing. And so you were talking just a minute ago about, am I living this out for my leader? Right, right. Well, where am I learning that from? Am I learning those characteristics and those traits from my leader or am I having to start that foundation myself? Don’t allow your individuals to have to build that foundation.

Chris Goede:
Allow them to see you model that and then encourage them to do the same thing.

Perry Holley:
That’s part of that first E environment, no doubt. And the second E equipping the 30 and the final one is exposure, is that knowledge is good, experience is. And the idea that should we be exposing these growing leaders to opportunities in a variety of leadership teaching and modeling and experiences they have. We did a podcast here once where we talked about. Because everybody’s telling me, I don’t have time for this. Stop trying to add leadership development to your already busy calendar. Add leadership development to what’s already on your calendar. So if you’re going to a meeting and it’s okay to have somebody tag along, have one of your eagles tag along and have them sit quietly and observe and then debrief with them.

Perry Holley:
What did you hear? What did you see? Is how we do it at the next level and begin to invite them into these experiences. And I’m going to tell you, in the digital age right now, there is no excuse. No excuse. You can’t say, I don’t have money, I don’t have time. They’re less than 20 minutes. They are a podcast. YouTube is completely free. I found more opportunities to learn on YouTube that I wish I’d started earlier.

Perry Holley:
A lot of, a lot of pod. All podcasts, I think are mostly are free. There’s low cost on books. There’s so much you can do and you can do it all electronically and get people into that environment and that equipping and that exposure.

Chris Goede:
Well, as we wrap up, hopefully there’s a couple of ideas that we talked about kind of kicked around here that just gravitated towards. I just want to ask you to, to pick one of them. And, and maybe that idea is that you create a spreadsheet with the list that we talked about, the 10 things and put that across. But here’s what I want to challenge you to do before you begin listing out your team and those that are potentially in your pipeline and checking those boxes. Put your name up there first.

Perry Holley:
One of the rows has to be you.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. The very top one ought to be you and, and maybe have somebody else fill it out on your behalf instead of yourself. But yeah, that, that is the application today. Go after that list of 10 and see where you match up. And then take that and start looking with a different lens like it gives a different view of your people on your team. Yep.

Perry Holley:
And be intentional about it.

Chris Goede:
Be intentional about it.

Perry Holley:
Terrific, Chris. Thank you. And as always, glad you’re here. The if you want to learn more about our offerings, about our podcast family of offerings, you want to leave us a comment or a Chris said earlier, you can go to maxwellleadership.com podcast. We always love hearing from you. We’re very grateful you’d spend this time with us. That’s all today from the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast.

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