Executive Podcast #337: Communicating Status and Respect

Mark Cole:
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Mark Cole:
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Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Executive Podcast where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley a Maxwell leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
And I’m Chris Goede, executive Vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining. Today we’re going to talk about communicating status and respect. And this is something that we’ve been talking about over the past several weeks and it’s about how do. How are we motivating the people that we lead? And a lot of the conversation has really been about motivating the younger generation. And you’ve been on this journey with Tim Elmore of sitting very closely with him and studying the Gen Z and generations. And so we’re going to dive into, you know, what does that look like? Just as a quick reminder, back with episode the podcast 323. That’s right.

Chris Goede:
We have produced over 323 podcasts. It’s actually where we were talking about motivating Gen Z and we’re going to actually continue that conversation today. So after you listen to today, I would encourage you to go back and listen to that. How you can find that is go to MaxwellLeadership.com/Podcast and there you’ll be able to find episode 323. If you have a comment or a topic or even just a thought based off our conversation today or off of episode 323, feel free to on that form right there, put your information in there, give us that information. We’d love to kind of unpack that for you on a future episode.

Perry Holley:
And so, yes, I was, I’ve been preparing for a couple of keynotes with organizations talking about mostly younger generation stuff, but I love this lesson. And Tim Elmore, I was talking with Tim and he suggested a book. And I’m going to suggest it for you if you’re looking at for helping motivate people on your team. But the book is 10 to 25 the Science of Motivating Young People. A groundbreaking approach to leading the Next Generation is by Dr. David Jaeger. And I just found this fascinating. This is about motivating anybody on your team and communicating status and respect.

Perry Holley:
But he’s got lots of great ideas in the book that I think would help you with anybody that you’re leading. But one of the thoughts that he presented that really got me thinking was about communicating with others is how you communicate with them. Does it threaten their feelings of status in the organization and a feeling of being respected or disrespected? And I thought, what do you think about that? Those words, those are not words we normally think.

Chris Goede:
No, we don’t talk a lot about either. Well, we talk about respect, but the status one. So when you say status, you mean position or like kind of rank in regards to me or the leader, right?

Perry Holley:
Yeah, I think exactly. Everybody in the organization, and this is interesting because of the way we view leadership. It’s not positional, it’s influence. But everybody has got a title, everybody’s got a position that one parter than the other. But you could come across as, I’m the higher, you’re the lower. And in your communication, even if they had the same title via the peer, you could come across with, I’m more important. How you do that.

Chris Goede:
I’ve been here two days longer than you.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, whatever.

Chris Goede:
So I can’t imagine obviously the world that we live in, any leader that would purposely intend to do that. However, some of that are listening right now may go, you’re crazy. Like, I absolutely could name three leaders, right, that intentionally did this and made somebody, either me or somebody on my team feel of a lower status. But what we need to be very aware of is what we talk a lot about in the intent versus perception gap, right? Where my intent was not to make you feel that way or to seem like it was a status thing or a lack of respect. However, what’s important about that is how you received it or how you perceive that information is the reality. And I need to As a leader, we always say this in this illustration of the intent versus perception gap. As a leader, it’s your responsibility to close the gap, not the other individual. And so we need to make sure that we are not unintentionally going about making people feel like they’re a lower status or don’t have as much respect in the organization that we do.

Perry Holley:
And I totally agree with you. I don’t think it’s purposeful in any way that somebody would do that. Maybe there’s one here or there, but.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, I don’t think.

Perry Holley:
I don’t think so. But people in your team, especially young people. But I think everybody can feel sensitive to the differences in status. And I’ll use the term power dynamic. I’ve heard you say your title enters your room before you do. There’s always a power dynamic in play, whether you’re going out of your way to reduce it. How other people see you, especially if you’re a supervisor or senior to them in the organization. But people are subtly reading between the lines based on what we say and trying to interpret.

Perry Holley:
Are there hidden implications in that? Are there in your words? They’re trying to find out are we disrespecting them or not showing honor to them. And this creates a disconnect between the leaders, how we intend to communicate and what people actually hear when we’re talking. So I thought we could consider some ways today are there way I’ve been doing this on coaching calls. What do you. What do you think you do that could hurt status and respect that people feel? Or can you. Can you build it up? And Dr. Yeager did such a great job in the book with some. Some ideas and tools there.

Perry Holley:
But we’ll share some of those that these come from His. His thinking.

Chris Goede:
One of the things I was just in my mind going over when you talk about this, I think also the lack of communication at times could also.

Perry Holley:
Kind of be an absent.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Could. Could say something to an individual. Unintentionally. Their perception of that could be a status thing or a lack of respect. And. And so we need to make sure that not only are we not communicating in that way, but we’re communicating in a way that 100% makes them feel like they’re heard. And it’s not a status or respect thing.

Chris Goede:
So make sure you understand that it could be lack of communication or communication as we’re going through this. So first ask, don’t tell the respect others by treating them as equals. I love the statement you put in my notes. Adults are asked, children are told. I wish I would have known that.

Perry Holley:
And we love. We love to tell, but we don’t like to be told.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Oh, that’s.

Perry Holley:
Well, that’s Jaeger talking. This is really what got me going. But he said that treating people as equals. Now, I’m going to share this with you. The. I’m doing a keynote last week, and this topic was. Came up, and I said that about being equals. And this guy says, but we’re not equals.

Perry Holley:
They are not equal to me.

Chris Goede:
Like during your keynote?

Perry Holley:
Yeah.

Chris Goede:
Well, interactive.

Perry Holley:
Kind of interactive thing. And I asked for it, but he said, but we’re not equals. What would you say to that?

Chris Goede:
Yeah, I think probably where my mind goes is that. Yeah. Positionally. Right. You’re not equal. You don’t probably have the same position. You’re not. Same level tier, whatever you might call it.

Chris Goede:
But. But we are human beings, but we are all people. And so we want to make sure that we’re valuing all humans as equal. Right. There’s no difference. And you woke up and put your pants on the same way that I did. Right. And we want to treat them that way.

Perry Holley:
That’s why I love this so much, though. Think about that for a moment. If you felt like when you entered the room. Well, I enter the room with you. Or you were in the room with Mark. Mark enters the room with John. And we feel like we are less than.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
We’re not their equal.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
Intellectually or not positionally. But I. I belong here. It’s about inclusion, that I’m going to be a better teammate. If I feel like we’re equals.

Chris Goede:
Yes.

Perry Holley:
In the solving of whatever the problems we’re trying to solve. But if I feel like I’m less than, I’m gonna not be fully rowing this boat. I’m going to be holding back.

Chris Goede:
I think that’s why John is. He’s now kind of coined this phrase. Right. But any room he goes into immediately goes up to every single person and say, hi, my name is John.

Perry Holley:
I’m your friend.

Chris Goede:
Right. Like, hey, let’s have a conversation. And it’s not like, I’m Dr. John C. Maxwell and I’ve sold.

Perry Holley:
Author of 90 million.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Books. No. It’s like, hey, man, I’m your friend. Like, we’re in the same. Let’s talk and let’s. Let’s learn.

Perry Holley:
Well, second, Dr. Yeager suggests it said, find ways to honor the other person’s status. And he says, for example, point out their competence or their expertise. I see you do this all the time with people on the team, whether they be the client managers or the salespeople or the facilitators and coaches that you always talk about what they bring and why we need you. And your expertise is so important. You do this to me all the time to say, well, what do you think? Because I know you study this particular area instead of simply appealing to your own authority, you could easily come in and say, well, here’s how I see it. But you don’t. You come in and say, hey, we need your expertise.

Perry Holley:
So, you know, speaking respectfully is don’t have I know better than you attitude, even though you quite possibly may know better than me. Could you play along with that? To say, ask, like you said, ask, don’t tell, Put some good questions in there and use questioning is one of his tactics. Use questioning to draw people into the conversation.

Chris Goede:
I think the reason that’s so important for leaders to do that is, number one, we can accomplish more together than we can alone. Let me just say that, right? And so each and every part of the team is there for a reason. And oftentimes as leaders, we need to make sure that they remember that. Because we’re in a grind every day and we forget. Sometimes Mark Cole has to remind me why I’m on the team, right? Because I don’t even know which way’s up at times. But what it also does, though, is it ties what their giftedness is and what they’re bringing to the table to the bigger mission of what we’re doing. I’ll give you an example. Perry, Mitch.

Chris Goede:
I say it to him all the time. Perry is our content guy, right? He is an avid learner. He has been ever since he started coaching me years ago. And I tried to keep up for the first 30 days on his book consumption, and I quit. Um, but when it comes to. And even John right now will say that Perry is my pen in the corporate voice, right? So that’s his seat. How does that play? That plays in the fact that I couldn’t do that. It helps our corporate Solutions group team.

Chris Goede:
And then, oh, by the way, that then aligns with our organization vision, which is that we are going to add value to leaders to multiply. Like, you have to be communicating that so that they understand that they’re not lower status. They’re just. Maybe they don’t have a title, but that they have status with the team and that they have respect from everybody on the team. So just kind of fleshing that out some practical way of Perry Made that comment, but I wanted to give you a little bit more on behind the why and then how to go about doing that.

Perry Holley:
Why it’s really important with the young, younger group is because they are digital natives. They, they’ve never not known the Internet, they’ve never not known these devices. They are they in their world, on the social platforms, they have a lot of status, they are thought leaders, they are influencers, and they are respected for whatever. They, if, you know they’re doing a dance move or given a recipe, they have status and respect in that world. And then they come into your world and you’re going to talk down to them, make them feel like they’re less than you’re important. I’m not.

Chris Goede:
Who does he think he is?

Perry Holley:
Yeah, you’re gonna, you’re gonna kill motivation when you could be, you know, leveraging these two words to help drive dry the motivation.

Chris Goede:
That’s good.

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Chris Goede:
Well, third, validate whatever negative experiences others may have had. You may go, what do you mean by that? So treat their feelings as real and legitimate. Now I have to work on this. I’m going to stop right here in case my wife’s listening to this.

Perry Holley:
Right.

Chris Goede:
But then look for a way forward for them. So, for instance, one can mention that negative feelings for them are a sign that they’re trying something worth doing. Right? Like, do you get in that uncomfortable place and then you, you have these negative feelings and that’s okay. Like, help work through that with them and validate, you know, with them. There’s going to be different generations inside your workforce that are going to perceive some of the work as challenging or maybe even as a failure as a sign that they are incompetent, competent, and that is not the case at all. It’s, it’s. We don’t want it to be a demotivator or to discourage them or create disengagement, but you have to have a part of that inside your team. And I know you’ve done this with your kids growing up.

Chris Goede:
Me too. Right? It’s like, hey, if you don’t, you don’t fail. You’re not trying. Right? But John talks about the fact that, hey, you know, you. Sometimes you’re. You’re going to fail, but sometimes we’re going to learn. And I promise you, all of the time, you’re going to learn something that’s going to set you up for a future opportunity.

Perry Holley:
And that feeling of incompetence is a really big deal. Dr. Yeager points out. He says that they use that. Is that maybe I don’t belong here. Maybe this is not for me. I’m. I’m not.

Perry Holley:
I’m not keeping up. I feel incompetent compared to everyone else. And so your. Your job is really helping them understand that this is. I. I didn’t always feel confident in this role, and I have kind of. That your story helps them understand that the setbacks and the mistakes.

Chris Goede:
You too.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. Yeah, right.

Chris Goede:
What’s that? Sales have me too.

Perry Holley:
John said that he goes, if you. If you’re working with your team and they say, you know, so what? You’ve lost them. But if they leave your presence going, me too. You’ve got them.

Chris Goede:
You got them.

Perry Holley:
And so they know that you’re.

Chris Goede:
You’re.

Perry Holley:
Even though you may have the title in the position, you too, have struggled. You too have had questions. But if. If you allow, especially a young person to continue with the field of incompetence, if it’s a vicious cycle, they’ll say, I’m not. I’m not good at this work. I probably shouldn’t be here. Get me out of here. And they will.

Perry Holley:
And then they’ll hide it. They won’t ask for help because they don’t know how to do that, and then will pull back and eventually leave your organization. The fourth one he suggests was just allowing them to make decisions on their own. And if you have people on your team, this is. We would call this empowerment. Dr. Yeager called it acknowledging that everybody on your team has agency and that they. They are their own.

Perry Holley:
They can make decisions. It’s the ultimate in status and respect that if I trust you to make right decisions. What we would call empowerment is that we’ve prepared you, we’ve equipped you, we’ve developed you, we’ve modeled for you. Go, hey, go and be empower. To do that. That is the ultimate in status. You can make the decisions on your.

Chris Goede:
Own and don’t overlook some of the other things that we’re not going to go into detail and cover today that you can be doing to increase the status and the respect of those that are around you. Man. Practice active listening. Not just listening, but active. And do it in a way that you’re really being present. Perry and I have talked about. Is there a difference between listening and being curious? 100 there is. And understand that.

Chris Goede:
Be curious. Right. Encourage open dialogue and then create an environment. This is something that man, I have learned more as a leader from those around me when I’ve created an environment where people feel comfortable voicing their opinions, even if it differs from mine. I have a couple of my teammates that I have worked with for a long time. They’ll come in and be like, I just got to share something with you. And we couldn’t be further from the truth. I might have learned something.

Chris Goede:
And then they walk out and they go, man, thanks for just letting me say that. And just, you know, it showed that I had respect in the situation. So we gave you a couple we dug into. But there’s a lot of ways for you to be able to do this.

Perry Holley:
And also this is something we keep bringing up. Showing a little vulnerability in that past mistakes, your past mistakes and your personal development and you don’t have all the answers and you need help and you don’t know this. Instead of coming across too perfect, providing constructive feedback to everybody on your team, honest, accurate, direct feedback can really help helping people improve and then recognizing others contributions. So you can really bolster somebody’s status by acknowledging and appreciate all their efforts, all the things they’re doing, the part they play, calling it out to them and in front of others to let people know that they’re valued high ranking member of the team.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Well, as we wrap up, we’re having this conversation and the thing that keeps coming to my mind is especially now more than ever, there’s a belief deficit in our world and in our team and in our people. And so if unintentionally the intent versus perception gap is growing and we don’t know it as a leader, our team no doubt thinks that we don’t believe in them. And they already have a little bit of a belief deficit. So do we. And so how do we then get to that point where we’re building that up not artificially but like real time? Hey, we believe in you. One of the ways is what Perry brought to us today is like, man, are we intentional about doing these things to make sure that they understand. Yeah.

Chris Goede:
Status is a. It’s not a word that’s used very often, but respect 100% is used in. In the workplace. But what are we doing to make sure that they know that we believe in them? Whatever it might be, whether it’s admitting me too, or whether it’s like, hey, let’s man, that’s rally around each other. What’s your opinion on that? And what do you think about that? By doing things like that, interacting their status inside the organization and the respect that they think they’re going to. They’re going to feel that they have for other people is going to skyrocket. And so just remember there’s a belief deficit. So start there, letting them know that you believe in them.

Chris Goede:
And then think about practicing some of the ways that we brought to you today.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. It really is about inclusion and that belonging. I belong here. It’s safe here. Yeah. I’m valued here. And you want them.

Chris Goede:
You want to get the best for them and out of them. And it’s that fine line of influence of the difference, you know, between influence and manipulation is motive. And the only way for you to truly increase your influence with them, but to get the most out of them and for them to feel like, man, I was a part of that. Right, right. Is the fact that to your point, like, include them and. And believe in them, and those are just a couple ways to be able to do it.

Perry Holley:
Terrific. Well, thank you again and again, if you want to know more offerings about the other in our podcast family, if you like to leave us a comment or a question, you can do all that at MaxwellLeadership.com/Podcast. We always love hearing from you. Very grateful you spend this time with us today. That’s all from the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast.