Maxwell Leadership Podcast: Developing the Character of a Winner

Mark Cole:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. This is the podcast that adds value to you so you, as a leader, will multiply value to others. I’m Mark Cole, and today I cannot wait for you to listen to what John Maxwell is sharing with us. Here’s why. Because there’s a winner in every one of us. There’s a desire to be a winner in all of us, and there is a desire to be around winners within every one of us. John often says it like this. If you become better and bigger on the inside, you’ll become better and bigger on the outside.

Mark Cole:
The lesson today is all about how you can develop the character of the winner within you. How you can develop the character of the winner within the people that you lead and where you can identify and create winners all around you. Our desire is to help you become the winner you should be, so you can help those around you be as successful as possible at being the winner within them. Once the lesson is finished today, I’ll be talking to a winner. My co host today is Traci Morrow, and she and I are going to offer you some practical advice that will help you apply John’s lesson to your life and to your leadership. If you would like to download today’s free bonus resource, or if you’d like to watch us on YouTube, you can go to maxwellpodcast.com Winner I’m ready. Are you ready? I want to be on the winning team. I want to be a winner.

Mark Cole:
It’s within you. Here is John to teach you how.

John Maxwell:
How a leader develops the character of a winner. This is a very important lesson because there are people that are kind of inclined to success because they have a lot of good ability. But what we discover is sometimes that the detriment to the ability that we have that would give us success is the fact that we lack character, we lack values, we lack on the inside, those things which would help us take the good, strong, long, successful journey. So let’s talk a little bit about character. And how do you develop in a winter? I’m still reminded of my friend Truett Cathy, who has built a great restaurant company in the United States called Chick Fil A. And to be honest with you, in the fast food industry, they’re number one. Everybody knows that nobody doesn’t like Chick Fil A. And in the earlier days when Chick Fil A was growing, but they probably had potential to grow a lot faster than they were.

John Maxwell:
Truett Cathy, the founder, was sitting around with the board, and the board kept saying to Truett, let’s get Bigger. Let’s get bigger. Let’s have more stores. Let’s get bigger. Let’s get bigger. Truett Cathy looked at them and said, no, no, let’s get better. They kind of looked at him for a moment and thought, what do you mean by that? He said, well, here’s what I know. If we get better, the customers will demand that we get bigger.

John Maxwell:
He was exactly right. You see, Truett Cathy was thinking about the character of the company. He knew that if you are better on the inside, you’ll become better on the outside, that if you’re bigger on the inside, you’ll become bigger on the outside, and that what character is all about. So how do I develop character in my people to help them be successful? Number one, I would encourage you to get a personal definition of success. Now, success is very subjective. So if I asked you what success is, you’d give me a different answer than perhaps the person beside you. Success is very subjective. But I want to challenge you to get a personal definition of success that is inward.

John Maxwell:
Start with the insight. Start with the character. Get a character definition of success. For example, mine. It’s very simple. As I look at successful people and as a young person, I was beginning to experience some of that success. I was watching some of them literally fall down, fail, get out of the business. And I kept thinking they were doing so well.

John Maxwell:
What happened. And what happened is they had an outward definition of success. They had goals to reach, money they wanted to make, but they never started with the inside first. And so I developed an inside definition of success, which is those closest to me, those who know me the best, they’re the ones who respect me the most. It’s very simple, isn’t it? The people that know me well, my family, my close friends, they know me. They know my strengths, they know my weaknesses. They know what I do well, they know what I don’t well, but they love and respect me the most. Why is that? Because I’m a person of character.

John Maxwell:
That became my inward definition of success. Now, I want you to get that for yourself, and I want you to teach your people on your team. You need an inward definition of success, because you can’t travel without till you’re traveled within. The inside determines the outside. And so it’s very important for me to have a personal inside definition of success which will now allow me to travel outside. Now, the moment that I get my inside definition of success, those who are closest to me love and respect me the most. Now, I can get an outward definition of success for Me, it’s knowing my purpose in life, growing at my maximum potential, and sowing seeds that benefit others. But get the inside definition first.

John Maxwell:
That’s how you develop character and help your people to really win from the inside first. Number two, learn and live good values. Values are what give you stability. As we went through Covid, my CEO Mark Cole and I sat down and he said, john, with COVID and uncertainty, what’s going to happen to our companies? I said, I don’t know. I said, In 12 months we could lose it all. It’s okay. I said, here’s what we need to know. Let’s keep our values intact.

John Maxwell:
Let’s follow our values. We don’t give up our values. We hold to them, especially during crisis. Let’s value our people, let’s take care of them. Let’s make sure we do the right thing. I said, if we all go under, we all go under together. But let’s make sure that we keep our values intact. So when you learn good values and you live good values, wow, you just become more valuable.

John Maxwell:
I wrote a book called Change youe World. It’s a life changing book. If you get a chance, pick it up. It will teach you all about this character on the inside, the values on the inside, which so determine the success on the outside. Outside. The third way that you develop characters that allow them to become winners in life is to teach them that everything worthwhile is uphill. That if they’re going to be a success, it’s all uphill. There’s nothing quick about it.

John Maxwell:
There’s nothing easy about it. There’s nothing that just happens. There’s no luck about it at all. It’s all uphill. You have to be intentional to climb this hill. You’ve got to give energy every day to this. You’ve got to expect adversity, difficulties, hardship, all of your dreams, everything. It’s all uphill.

John Maxwell:
It’s right up here. Now. Once you teach people that, then when they have adversity, they don’t think that they’ve done something wrong or that they’re an exception. They say, well, John said it would be uphill all the way. He said it wouldn’t be easy. He said it would take a long time. He said there were no quick fixes. There were, wow.

John Maxwell:
The difference between people who succeed and people who don’t is quite simple. Let me give it to you. People who succeed, they do what is right and then they feel good. People who do not succeed, people who fail, they want to feel good before they do. What is right? Those are two totally different worlds. Remember, everything worthwhile is uphill. What does that mean for the people on your team? Encourage them that the first battle they must win is the battle with themselves. Then they can take care of the outward battles.

John Maxwell:
The first victory you want them to have is a personal self victory. Then they can have victory with others and for others. I think developing character in your personal life and in the life of your team is what’s going to help you get through the difficult times. And when other people fall off, your people stay the course. Why? Because they’re bigger on the inside than they are on the outside. Because they’re better on the inside than they are on the outside. That’s what I want for you, and that’s what I want for your people.

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Mark Cole:
Hey, welcome back, everybody. Boy, did you not just feel within you a desire to step up and be that winner? I’m reminded of a quote John Wooden often gave. He says winning takes talent, but to repeat takes character. Today, what we want to do is not make you a winner for a moment, but a winner for a life. And so I’m so glad. Traci, I admire you. Tell that through the podcast family all the time. So many aspects of you and your world, your family, your business, how you carry it all.

Mark Cole:
That reminds me of the characteristics of a winner. So it’s cool to be able to sit down and listen to John and then kind of unpack it with you.

John Maxwell:
Well, thank you, Mark. I think it’s no secret that I admire you. I think it’s one thing when you admire somebody and for what they’ve accomplished and what they’ve done, but really, I think the greatest compliment of all is when someone says that they admire you for the person that you are. And that is about character. And that’s how I feel about you. And so we touched on, on about a little bit before we got on. But I didn’t ask you the details because I wanted to save it for when we were recording. But was there moment or a situation or a series of situations where this lesson kind of clicked for you personally as a leader that you can recall and share with us?

Mark Cole:
Yeah. You know, so the idea of winning, you might surprise everybody, but the idea of winning has always appealed to me. I am such a competitor, and I think God was very kind to me to not give me a whole lot of talent because I would have used it to destroy the competition. I have to work hard to be a winner. Most of the time. I have to pick people much better than me so I can be a winner and ride on their coattails. But my point in saying that, Traci, is all of my life, whether it was sports, whether it was sports like ping pong, or whether it is being right in an argument, I have always, always been passionate about winning, except in one season of my life, Traci, to where I was losing, losing big time. And it was at the character issue.

Mark Cole:
I allowed myself to compromise who I was, who I wanted to be, and not only to compromise it, but to become comfortable with the compromise. And I think that’s the greatest challenge within all of us is when we not only compromise what a winning character looks like, but when we become comfortable with it, we begin to live with it, we begin to be okay with it, we began to defend it. And for the happened chance that somebody listening to our podcast today is truly struggling with a character issue that is not who you really are. I promise you today is a good day for you because you can stop and start again. Back to your question, Traci. Yeah, I do. I remember, man, many years ago now, just coming to the end of myself when my character was showing up and the battle that I felt on the inside began to be a public battle that I was fighting and the relief and the challenge all at the same time. When I no longer had to hide the poor disciplines that I had in the character within me was a turning point for me.

Mark Cole:
And I will tell all of you again, there is a winner within you. I said that in the preliminary comments before we threw it to John today. There’s a winner in you, there’s a winner around you, and there is a winner that you are desiring to show to the world around you. We’ve got to work on today and today’s lesson, just like I had to some 25 years ago to begin to work through becoming the character that was within me that I had hidden with poor choices and a lack of discipline in cultivating that character of a winner.

John Maxwell:
I love that transparency, as always with you, which is just a shining example of your character that you’ve come so far. I also don’t want to take away all the value that you just said, but I also want to highlight the fact that you led with the sport of ping pong.

Mark Cole:
Well, hey, well, let me tell you this, Traci. I think I’ve told. I’ve told you this before. I think I definitely have said this on the podcast before. I went to a college, truly. I went to a college that was so small that our sports program was intramural ping pong. And I was good.

John Maxwell:
Man, that just makes you so much more lovable. Every time I learn those little things about you, I’m like, oh, my gosh, I love you. Okay, so John talks about three things that a leader can focus on with his team in developing character in his people or her people. But first, what I would love to kind of chat a little bit about before we dive into that is what happens when a leader focuses solely on the outside before the inside with their team.

Mark Cole:
Yeah, I think what happens is we begin to get our affirmation and our sense of success from those around us that can only see the external version of ourselves. And that external version may be as much as 8, 10 hours a day, 40, 50, 60 hours a week, but they really don’t live with you. And when, anytime anyone allows your source of validation to come first from around you, you’re believing lies, because they don’t know all of you. You have to know, and most of us do. You have to know whether you’re winning from an internal perspective, from an internal barometer, if you will. You’ve got to know what winning looks like without any kind of affirmation behind you. I love it when John says, hey, in the beginning, I wasn’t as bad as people thought I was, but today I’m not as good as people think I am. And I think what John’s really illustrating there is an understanding that oftentimes when we just get started, people don’t see the real winner within us.

Mark Cole:
And we spend all this time trying to impress the people around us rather than to salvage and protect the person inside of us, and it becomes a false sense of success. That’s why I caution people all the time, get an inner circle that will be honest with you. One, because you don’t need to listen to the likes on Facebook or the likes on Instagram to drive your value and what. Whether your content is good. But let me tell you something else you don’t need to do. You don’t need to try to impress them to the point that you trade what makes you so unique and what makes you so special and gifted. And oftentimes that’s what we do.

John Maxwell:
Yeah. And I think when a leader also, I think we’ve all seen it when a leader is focusing on the exterior and not as much the inside of the team, of the development of the team, I think it really cultivates that imposter syndrome where you start to feel like jumping through the hoops, but you aren’t really. You’re faking it inside and you start to feel like a fraud. So if that’s you or if you are a leader that’s starting to see that in your team, that, that really this is a great lesson for all of us. So John first kicks it off with the. The first three in developing character. And he talks about getting a personal definition of success before you go to the exterior definition of success. And so I, John shared his.

John Maxwell:
And I was curious, Mark, a lot of times it’s in alignment because you work so close, John, because of proximity. But I was just curious if you had. If it’s the same or if you have a similar or slightly different personal definition of success for yourself personally.

Mark Cole:
You know, it’s funny because as you do so well, so often, when John kind of gives one of these key components of his uniqueness of who he is, you’ll oftentimes say, hey, give us your rule of five, Mark. Give us what you do right there. I anticipated that question, even though that we didn’t discuss it beforehand. And the boring answer is, is because I haven’t found one better. I love John Maxwell’s. And it would be mine. Truly, Traci. It would be the closer.

Mark Cole:
You know me. Jake’s in the studio with me today, and he’s been in the studio all day with me. The more he sees me, the more you get to know me is the more I want you to respect and believe in me. My girls, my daughters, my wife, my grandkids. I had a crazy cool experience recently with my grandkids that was just so moving to me because I want them to see a side of me that others don’t see, but to like it more. The one thing that I would add, so I love John’s. Those closest to me and know me the most or the ones that respect me the most. I think that what I add to that would be it’s not the possessions that I gain, but it’s the relationships I sustain.

Mark Cole:
And so it’s the importance. So often people will sacrifice key relationships to acquire something or to gain something. It’s still a knockoff of John’s incredible statement. But I don’t want to be gauged by what I acquire. I want to absolutely be gauged by the people I surround myself with, by the people that can call me a lifer, a lifetime friend. People that after a long experience with me and even a difficult time with me, will still come back and call me friend and call me respectable. I love that. That’s big success from my standpoint.

John Maxwell:
Yeah, I love that too. And I love that little twist on it because it makes it very personal for you. And I think it’s a good example to all of us who are in the listening audience. And I count myself among the listening audience. It’s okay to layer it and then slightly have it a little bit more personal. I love that. So do you have one for the outside, what success looks like from the outside to you, yet?

Mark Cole:
Success for me looks like growth. If I can track in any area that I am growing, that I am increasing, then that’s success for me. It’s not a goal of a billionaire. It’s am I more successful this year? Have I been able to grow my wealth this year compared to last year? Have I been able to increase my influence this year compared to last year? It’s all comparative. In fact, for years that’s how I have ran John’s company as the CEO is not to set goals of aspiration, but to set goals that show growth in comparative analysis rather than goal analysis. And I’ve just transitioned that over in all the key areas that are important to me, including like giving. My definition of success in giving this year is 1% more than what I gave last year. And I don’t even look at giving as a dollar amount.

Mark Cole:
I look at as a percentage amount. And am I growing that percentage of giving on earnings? I want to earn a dollar more this year than I did last year. I want to always be exhibiting growth from an external perspective.

John Maxwell:
I love that and I hope that our listeners took note of that as well. I love the generosity growth because I think so many people look at their success for how much they are bringing into them themselves and maybe thinking about time that they that they’re spending with other people. But the generosity goal, I think that’s one of the Things about having proximity to you and John for years now is it stretched my thinking and my husband Casey for us to really expand our generosity goals every year. And that is, that is so fun when you start thinking less about your. But because it means your success for your family, means it’s expanding so that you can become more and more generous every year. I love that. Okay, so let’s move to number two, learning and living good values. But you know what really stood out to me is if somebody has been listening to the podcast for a while or maybe they’ve read a bunch of John’s books.

John Maxwell:
And, and I’m, I’m certain if you’ve read a bunch of John’s books, then you’re going to know it. But let’s just say, let’s say somebody’s new to the podcast or new to listening and they’ve just discovered who John Maxwell. And, and they, they think, I want to live and I want to learn good values. John says, and I want to live good values. But let’s pause there for a minute just to think, how would you determine if you did if you were raised in a home? And I’m finding more and more people, it’s moved away from that. So we have a whole generation of people who maybe did not learn good values in their home, and it was not modeled for them and they want to live it, but it hasn’t been modeled for them and they haven’t learned them. So how would you help them determine what those good values are in order that they might live them if they’ve never seen them or had them modeled or even heard of them before?

Mark Cole:
Yeah, it’s so funny. I was in Tupelo, Mississippi, and we were launching what our foundation calls a community transformation initiative. And we had leaders from every stream of influence. The government was there, education was there, entertainment from that area was there, which was some ball teams leaders. And we had business leaders, we had faith leaders in the room. And we began to talk about that. We’re a values driven nonprofit. We teach values in countries around the globe.

Mark Cole:
And one of the guys happened to be in the faith community, which was quite curious to me because most of the time the faith community celebrates the concept of good values. He says, I don’t need you coming to my community and telling me what good values are. I know what they are. And I went, well, there’s a good point of view right there. And there’s kind of this defiant point of view. I decided to go by the good point of view, even though I Think it was intended the other way.

John Maxwell:
You’re generous.

Mark Cole:
I said, you know, that’s true. You do understand good values. But there are values that are universal. There are values that are not, not notated as biblical values or spiritual values or just what I value because I’m from a particular region around the world. There’s a value that is universal. Do you know every religion has a variation of this idea right here? Do for others what you wish would be done for you. It’s the Golden Rule. We’ve heard the Golden Rule.

Mark Cole:
The Golden Rule is literally. It’s a universal concept that’s been adapted by. I think the literal number is 90. Four of the religions around the globe has that variation in it. Well, the value there is, Traci, if I will see you as valuable, if I will treat you as valuable, then if I see myself as valuable, I will treat you as valuable. If I would prefer something to be done for me, serving me in this particular area, then I would be willing to do that for you. If I would want somebody working for me that would exhibit the value of hard work, then I should work hard. And so if I want to be forgiven for the times I have this gnarly, nasty, human, gross perspective, then I should forgive others.

Mark Cole:
That’s having a bad day. It gets really simple when we go, you know, the value is to treat each other as valuable. To see the value in others and to treat them that way is to forgive. Which is one of the values that we teach all around the globe is this concept of forgiveness. You need to be willing to forgive if you want to be forgiven. And so I think we overplay. What are your values on your corporate wall? What are your family values with the five guiding factors of what value? And we just need to distill it down to seeing people around us as valuable and treating them with values that we espouse to. Some people value acceptance.

Mark Cole:
What they really should be saying if they value acceptance is not. You have to agree with what I accept. You should just accept me because acceptance is my value. But we taint values too often because of the agenda we’re representing. And we use the values to defend the agenda, but we violate the values when we try to impose that agenda on others.

John Maxwell:
Absolutely. And I just want to. You know, we talk about value so much here, and John talks about valuing people, valuing himself. And I think sometimes it’s good to bring. Get back to the basics for we get so many new listeners, so many people coming to the podcast new. I just think it’s good to touch on that sometimes. And John has a book called Change youe World that has a whole bunch of values based lessons that are connected to it if you go to changeyourworld.com and so I just think it’s good to throw that out there every once in a while for people who would like to really do a deep dive into that. Okay, so going to number three, teach.

John Maxwell:
Teaching your team that everything worthwhile is uphill. Which incidentally, all of this is so good for parents as well. So you’re, that’s part of a team. If, if ping pong can be a sport, then your family can be a team. Okay, so I agree, I agree. But this is something, I think everything worthwhile is uphill. This is something that I think is very difficult to really get deep down inside until the road starts to tilt uphill. And then that’s when you really start to go, oh.

John Maxwell:
And really start to internalize this lesson. And so from what you’ve experienced personally and with those that you’ve led. Mark, why do you think that this is such a character defining situation, that teaching people that everything worthwhile is uphill, that that develops your character as a winner?

Mark Cole:
Traci, I love this question because I think it goes back to when John first stated that statement. And I was there, I was in the room when John said everything worthwhile is uphill. Before he made that statement, he was teaching a concept that we had been working on in our travels. And he said, you know, Mark, it’s interesting because people have uphill dreams. They believe up there, the summit is where I want to be. The rise is what I’m after. He said, but the problem is they have uphill dreams, but they have downhill habits. And he said, what people don’t understand is human nature wants to drag us down, wants to help us, wants to challenge us to take the easy way out, wants to challenge us to go easy or to give up or to not try so hard.

Mark Cole:
He said, but ambition and dreams challenges us to keep climbing. And it was when he said that everything worthwhile, people have uphill dreams, downhill habits, but everything worthwhile is uphill. Nobody coasts their way to success. Nobody drifts to a destination. You’ve got to climb, you’ve got to swim, you’ve got to overcome the adversity that’s in front of you to accomplish the dream that is within you. And that whole concept, Traci, is really what I think it means to go. So if it’s worth pursuing, it’s going to be uphill what I don’t like. And John didn’t say it necessarily in this lesson, but he says it often.

Mark Cole:
He says, everything worthwhile is uphill. And then he adds three words to it, all the way. And I’m going. That’s the problem. I can go uphill for a little while. I’ve ran some marathons, ran some relay races, and I’ve been in crazy mountains running these relays, and I can do it. But every once in a while, I have to remind myself, you know what? You go uphill long enough, there’s going to be a downhill on the other side of the summit, and I’ll be able to coast a little bit with this run. That’s not the way it is in life and leadership.

Mark Cole:
It’s uphill all the way. And we don’t do plateaus and we don’t do relaxings and we don’t do downhills. It’s uphill all the way. But I think that’s also how we develop character. I was listening to a podcast. If I could remember what it was, I would refer it to you. It was very good. But the podcast today was talking about how leaders that look for the easy way out actually cheapen the reward when you get there.

Mark Cole:
But by keeping a mindset that says, I will pay the price, you increase the value of the accomplishment. You increase the weight with which you treat it when you’re holding that success. You know, I’ve been doing what I’m doing right now as far as working on John Maxwell’s team for 25 years. I’ve had some Grammy moments. I’ve had some moments that was way more recognition than I deserved. I’ve been rewarded for accomplishments that were not mine. They were the team that I was leading. But here’s what I will tell you.

Mark Cole:
It’s not any easier today. In some ways, it’s hard. It wasn’t easier when I reached the plateau of a CEO of John’s company. I’d set that on a life plan, a life goal, a whiteboard, if you will, a dream board. 12 years before. And I got it. And there was this 24 hour wow. Only to be hit with the responsibility of what I’d asked for.

Mark Cole:
Within 24 hours, I became the owner of John’s legacy, a dream that I had placed in my heart in a very spiritual moment. In 2010, I was given that. Ten years later to the month, I signed the paperwork and became. And six weeks later, Covid shut down 60% of the business I now owned. It didn’t become easier because I had reached a plateau. John says it like this. He says, you’ve heard the statement, pay more, pay now, play later. He said, that’s not true.

Mark Cole:
You pay now so you can pay more later. Because when you have paid the price to get where you are, guess what? There’s a new price to pay. There’s a new climb to travel. And so that’s what I think John is saying. You don’t develop the character that says, my character will sustain this climb. You develop the character that says my character sustains climbs. I’m not trying to get done with this climb. I’m trying to develop a character that will sustain a climb that will constantly challenge me for the rest of my life.

John Maxwell:
I love this. I love this. And how we get. So last question and we’ll close out. But how do you get your team members, Mark, to understand and trust that the internal battle is the most critical game changing battle? You know, that’s what he ended on, is that that internal battle is the most critical battle. And how do you get your team to trust that and lean into that?

Mark Cole:
You know, for years I made this mistake and maybe there’s some podcast listeners that lead people that’s making the same mistake now. I used to teach people that the struggle was a season. I’d say, oh, it’s a season. This too shall pass. You’re going to get this. I’ve quit saying that struggles are a season. And I say struggles is leadership.

John Maxwell:
Yeah.

Mark Cole:
Oh, welcome. That’s leadership. Do you like it? Let me give you some more leadership. Do you repel from the difficulty? Then maybe you should go back to being a follower. And I’m not acting like that. We should be sadistic in the fact that we just love pain and we just love the price and we just, oh, man, give me the challenge. I don’t think that’s. That’s really what John and I are after.

Mark Cole:
But we also don’t let it diminish or belittle our character. And what I want for you this year, we’re at the first of this year. You’re a podcast listener. You’re in our family. Some of you have been listening for a long time. I hope this year is filled with a challenge worth climbing. I hope your character is revealed this year as a person, a leader, that is up for the challenge, that is up for the uphill. And I try to teach our team that.

Mark Cole:
I used to say this is a season that we’re in as an organization, that we’re just going to have to we’re going to have to work hard. We’re going to have to do this. And I’m going, no. I’ve been here for 25 years. The season never ended. This is an environment that will challenge people to still have balance, to still have the tension of balance in their life, but still reach for aspirations that’s bigger than all of us. And our calling, our vision is worth putting it all out on the field. Not to diminish the values and the personal relationships, but to fight for something that is worth being able to go home and tell our families.

Mark Cole:
Look at what we were able to do together as a family because we believed in the value of the uphill climb.

John Maxwell:
I think this lesson gives our people so many things to chew on as they are not just developing their own inner character as a winner, but team as well.

Mark Cole:
Yeah. You know, it’s interesting, Traci, you said earlier, and I’m so glad you did this, you talked about values and we certainly do have belief on actually about 25 values that we have listed in Change youe World. And I hope you’ll go and get that book. It’s a really great book on getting common values with uncommon results on what to do and how to defend those values. And so that’s change your World. It made me want to, Traci, to challenge everybody in our podcast family to take our online course for Change youe World. We’ll give you a discount like we always do. If we mention something on the podcast, we’ll drop that down to maybe we’ll just give you a third off.

Mark Cole:
I mean two thirds off. We’ll give it to you for $99 today. For those of you that go to the Show Notes, click the link, use the Passcode podcast and we’ll give that to you for $99. Because I think understanding the importance of the inside winner that’s within all of us will change the world outside of you when you start within. I love Tony’s comment, Traci. He listened to the podcast how to Be a Real Success now he was listening to part two. We’ll put both parts, part one and part two in the show notes for those of you that want to go back and listen that. But Tony said, I’ve always found John Maxwell’s approach to leadership incredibly practical and inspiring.

Mark Cole:
It’s true that everything rises and falls on leadership and having the right mindset does make a difference. Tony, I agree with you. Our podcast family, leave us a comment. What is your thoughts? Maybe ask a question. You are the reason we’re doing this. Perhaps you’ll go on wherever you download the podcast and give us a rating. We prefer five stars. It helps get our podcast up to the top and together we’ll go make a difference.

Mark Cole:
And that’s why we’re here. We want to bring powerful positive change because everyone deserves to be led. Well.

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