Maxwell Leadership Podcast: Leadership Blind Spots

Mark Cole:
Welcome back to the Maxwell Leadership podcast. Our goal is to add value to leaders who multiply value to others. I’m so glad you’re joining us today. My name is Mark Cole, and this week’s episode is all about leadership. Blind spots. I don’t know about you, but one of my greatest concerns as a leader is what am I missing? John Maxwell is going to share a lesson that will help you become aware of areas in your leadership where blind spots may be present so that you can take action. After his lesson, Chris Goede will be joining me, and we’ll begin to talk about some of those blind spots and how we can apply what we’ve learned to our life and leadership. If you would like to download the free bonus resource for this episode, or even watch this episode on YouTube, visit maxwellpodcast.com/blindspots.

John Maxwell:
The blind spot, I think, is an area in the lives of people in which they continually do not see themselves. And I left that blank continually because that’s such an important part of understanding a blind spot. It’s an area in the lives of people in which they continually did not see themselves or their situation. Realistically, this unawareness often causes great damage to the people and those around them. And the reason I think this is such an important lesson is very simple. In leadership, everything compounds, everything exaggerates. If you’re good, everything around you and everybody around you gets blessed by it and enjoys the fruit of the land, so to speak, just as if you’re bad, everybody’s affected in a negative way. For leaders, there are certain areas that a lot of leaders have blind spots in, and I tried to identify some of them, and I’m gonna give them to you now.

John Maxwell:
Interestingly enough, the first one I give you, I think, almost always is the main one. So let’s talk about it. A singular perspective. The greatest asset that a leader has is the ability to see other people’s points of views and understand consensus. That’s the greatest ally and asset a leader ever has. To be able to not only know what they’re thinking and what they sense, but to be able to know what the people are thinking and what they sense. A focus that expands beyond this is what I think, and this is what I feel as a leader, but really is inclusive, is a great asset to a leader because it allows that leader to understand how to lead and motivate others. Because you lead and motivate others, not from your perspective, but from their perspective.

John Maxwell:
You motivate and lead others, not from how you feel about something, but about how other people feel about something. And so the ability to have a wide perspective is the greatest asset a leader has. Well, the blind spot is when a person has a leadership position and they have a singular perspective. And what I have discovered is a blind spot for leaders is when they have a singular perspective and they read every situation and every person from how they see from their perspective. For probably the first five, six years of my leadership, I was so focused on how I felt about things and what I believed about things that I really was not a consensus leader. I just absolutely said, this is right. This is it. This is my conviction.

John Maxwell:
This is what I believe. This is where I’m going. This is the goal. Go to the mountain. And I had a very, very singular perspective in my life, and it was becoming a blind spot. In fact, my motto was, save time, see it my way. Followers are inward focused. Basically, the followers question is always, how will this affect me? Leaders are outward focused, and they have to be asking the question all the time, how will this affect others? What happens to leaders is that when they have a singular perspective, their followers get nervous on them eventually because they say, he doesn’t understand, he doesn’t see, he has not considered.

John Maxwell:
And they begin to get very insecure with that kind of leadership. Because their viewpoints or their thoughts or their ideas or their input haven’t at all been validated. And it creates an enormous gap between the leader and the follower. Okay, number two is insecurity. Major blind spot. I think among leaders, insecure leaders are a detriment to themselves and to the organization at which they lead. They place their followers in jeopardy. They place their organization in jeopardy.

John Maxwell:
They even place themselves in jeopardy. Insecurity causes the leader to think only of himself. Boy, this is a very key phrase. And the very essence of leadership is others. And therein is the blind spot. You have never met an insecure person who is other focused. Insecure people are absolutely, how’s it going to affect me? How do people think about me? How do they perceive me? How did I do? They are constantly doing inward checks, which is the antithesis of what leadership is all about. So insecure people have major blind spots because they can never get away from themselves long enough to see others.

John Maxwell:
And so therefore, they’re very, very vulnerable. Two basic blind spots we’ve talked about with leaders. One, a singular perspective. Number two, insecurity. Number three, as I look at leaders and again try to generalize or put in a common pool, things that I think leaders have blind spots in. I think number three is, without any question, my mind would fit in the category that’s devaluing people. Leaders who devalue other people will constantly have blind spots. Let me give you these thoughts on leaders here.

John Maxwell:
Leaders who value their people give them their best effort. Leaders who devalue their people give them their least effort. Can I tell you that is an absolute fact when you and I, as leaders, devalue people, I have never known a leader who devalues people who gave them his or her best. It is not in the DNA. In fact, here’s what I have always said. A leader will give his or her effort based upon his or her evaluation of the people they lead. How I evaluate you will determine my effort I give to you. That is a fact.

John Maxwell:
And when you devalue people, the blind spot becomes huge in your life, because the effort you give is going to be corresponding to how you see them. Leaders who value their people serve their people, or leaders who devalue their people want to be served by their people. Leaders who value their people empower them. Leaders who devalue their people control them. Leaders who value their people motivate them. Leaders who devalue their people manipulate them. Okay, let’s go to the fourth blind spot of many leaders. An ego out of control.

John Maxwell:
Many, many leaders, pride and ego has been their blind spot. And John Ruskin was exactly right when he said, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes. And I’ve often said the biggest mistake a leader makes is not admitting that the leader made the mistake. The COVID up and what causes that is ego and pride. You see, pride is concerned about who’s right. Humility is concerned about what’s right. Two different agendas. What does pride do in a leader? Pride is costly, destructive.

John Maxwell:
It’s the inverse of humility. Instead of taking responsibility, you blame others. Instead of being objective, you live in denial. Instead of being open minded and receptive, you’re closed minded and defensive. Instead of team spirit, you end up with low morale. Boy, this is so true about prideful ego. Out of control leaders. Instead of being connected, you find yourself out of touch with the client, customer, or the community or people you’re trying to reach.

John Maxwell:
Number five, a lack of character. And in your notes, I talk about character protects your talent. The thing about character is what it does is it doesn’t make you a leader, but what it does is it protects you as a leader. Now, here’s the key. When values, thoughts, feelings, and actions are in alignment, a person becomes focused and their character is strengthened. And character is the sum total of all our everyday choices. The 6th basic blind spot for leaders is living in our weak zone instead of our strength zone. Here’s the statement that is so key to the blind spot lesson.

John Maxwell:
Here we go. People are intuitive in the area of their strengths. So let me just talk to you a moment about this. I can win a hundred yard dash against the fastest person in the world, the Olympic gold medal winner, whoever that person might be at this time. I can win a hundred yard dash if they give me a 90 yard head start. The ability to sense and get moving before others sense and get moving is the greatest advantage a leader has. Can I tell you something? Leaders have an intuitiveness about moves that should be made and decisions that should be made quicker than somebody else. Now, here’s what I want you to catch.

John Maxwell:
We’re intuitive in the area of our strengths. So when a person comes up to me and they say, I’m not intuitive, that’s not true at all. You’re intuitive. But let me tell you where you are intuitive. You’re intuitive in the area of your gift, in the area of your strengths. Let me tell you what you’re not intuitive in the area of your weaknesses, and that’s where the blind spots occur. It’s not in my strengths, it’s in my weaknesses. That’s where I get hit broadside and say, what in the heck happened? I didn’t even have a clue this was going to appear.

John Maxwell:
So therefore, when you think of leadership and blind spot, if you’re in your strength zone, you’re going to kind of sense it probably before other senses. But if you’re in your weak zone, you’re going to be the last person in the room to figure it out. That’s why I have for your notes. Blind spots are in areas of our weakness. Okay, that’s very important.

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Mark Cole:
Hey, welcome back, everyone. I’m really, really excited about this lesson. Chris, you and I have led alongside each other a long time. We watched John lead, and I can truly say probably this is not really even experience talk, and it’s just kind of the power of deduction, I guess common sense that says the greatest detriment to effective leadership is what we can’t see about ourselves.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, I agree.

Mark Cole:
It’s the implosion of people around some of these things that John said that we don’t even realize it before it is too late and has created a wake behind us, a path of destruction. So I’m really excited for you listening today. I really hope you’ll slow down and not just listen to this as content, but I hope you’ll slow down and listen to this as a diagnostic of your leadership. How you will begin to assess after today’s podcast. Chris, if you and I are successful podcast family, you will be having some questions with those around you asking a couple of questions. What’s it like to be on the other side of me? And what am I missing? If we can be effective right here, Chris, then that’s going to be your homework assignment, going and asking that. And so it’s good to be sharing with you today.

Chris Goede:
I’m glad to be here. It’s funny you ask that question. I will periodically, if I’m speaking to a group or a team, and I’ll say, yeah, I love to ask my team that question, what’s it look like to be on the other side of my leadership? And then I run out of the room because I really don’t want to know what that answer is. I was also thinking about this as you were just talking and starting off. You come in often to our team meetings and you talk about, hey, the first thing we need to do as leaders is define reality. Now you’re talking about the organization in that moment, but how true is that for our individual leadership side of things? And you say, when you’re talking to the team, we got to define reality, because if not, we’re going to damage whatever we’re working on or influence or whatever. It’s the same thing with, you know, your own personal growth and your own personal blind spots. How do we define reality? And the hard part about that is, is that, and you, you mentioned we have led for several years.

Chris Goede:
Both of us are still in our twenties. But when the longer we have led, right, the more that we are, we feel competent. And the more we grow our competence, there’s two things that happen. Number one, we become unaware of what our blind spots are. And then, number two, I think our blind spots change because we’re growing and we’re getting more confident in certain areas. And if we’re not careful, we’re not aware. To your point, you and I are both guilty of this. And we’ve worked with a lot of leaders where they’ve left some.

Chris Goede:
They’ve left some damage in the wake, and I think we got to become aware of that.

Mark Cole:
I’ll say this, Chris, and then we’ll jump into some questions and thoughts that you and I have. I was just on the phone this week with Craig Groeschel. Now, he’s been on this podcast. He helped us with our high road leadership book launch recently. By the way, if you’re watching the podcast on YouTube, I’m holding up the book. I’ve got an idea that I want to share with you about this book a little bit later. But I was talking with Craig this week, and Craig’s, without doubt in question, the most successful faith leader in the United States, leading the largest church. His podcast, by the way, is incredible.

Chris Goede:
It’s on my list.

Mark Cole:
You ask me, what podcast do I listen to? The first one, I’ll tell you after. Ours, of course, is Craig Groeschel’s leadership podcast. It’s brilliant. Every time I listen to it, it’s incredible. I was on the phone yesterday, day before, with John Maxwell, both of them in conversation, uniquely enough, in preparation for today, we’re saying, hey, Mark, what am I missing right here? Craig had an invitation to speak at a group, and he was like, hey, I noticed John did. But I had a little bit of question, what am I missing here? Here’s the point. I don’t care how successful you are at your game, if you want to sustain success, you better be asking the question, what am I missing here? You better be doing a diagnostic on what are my blind spots? This lesson’s incredibly important to all of us as leaders.

Chris Goede:
It is really good. And you got to challenge yourself, because you. Again, as we get older, we get more comfortable. Not everybody gravitates towards, like, what Craig and John did. What am I missing here? They don’t. They don’t want that feedback. And so what we’re hoping to do today is. Is just encourage you to do that.

Chris Goede:
It’s something that we all need to be doing on a continual basis. And Mark and I talked, and there’s. There’s three of the points that John talked about that. We really just want to unpack a little bit for you. The first one is we really want to talk about this singular perspective. And I see this a ton. You see this as well. I think I can even get into that mode sometimes because I have a, I think all of us a confirmation bias.

Chris Goede:
And that’s what John was talking about early on in his career, right. He may have an idea and then he may be asking people thoughts, but he’s looking for people that align with that thought, that perspective, to kind of grasp what that looks like. And then there’s a disconnect right in between the leader and their teams or their people or their family or whatever it might be and their perspective. And it’s our job as a, as a leader to close that gap around the perspective. I was reading this study and I went back and when I knew we were going to talk about this, I went back and pulled this statistic. I thought it was really interesting. It’s a corn fairy study. And it said 92% of leaders that work to develop their EQ.

Chris Goede:
So they’re working, they’re growing on one of our values here. When they do that, they have high performing teams. I was like, okay, so that’s interesting. So what is EQ in essence? It is being open. A lot of things. The skills to be able to, to take in others perspectives, to be able to ask questions, to be able to, to look at yourself and assess yourself. So 92% that continue to work on their EQ, sky aside, have high performing teams because they’re open to perspectives.

Mark Cole:
Interesting.

Chris Goede:
So that, that builds off of what John was talking about and you and I, there’s a couple statements that John talked about here. We both have highlighted, we want to talk a little bit about this. And, and from your seat, you have experience of being around a lot of leaders, led a lot of teams. You have been singularly perspective at times. So have I. You’ve also then done the other. And that’s really where you try to go in talk to us a little bit about your philosophy behind that and the importance of that, not only in your personal growth for your blind spot, but then also in the areas of your responsibility on behalf of John, you know?

Mark Cole:
So here’s what’s interesting, Chris. As we look at the six that John shared with us today on this podcast, the one I struggle with the most is the singular perspective. Now, I feel like because of my relational skills and my bent on serving others and making others the hero, and I do have a natural bent my dad did it. His parents did it. I have this multigenerational model of serving others. We’ve just been in the service based industry, right. Or the service based world, so I can get really good at seeing the perspective from other people’s point of view. So that’s not really the struggle, although we’re talking about that as a blind spot.

Mark Cole:
A lot of leaders can’t. It’s my way or the highway. John made a quote. John made a quote here that says, we can save time, see it my way. Oh, I want to ask John, did you really learn that, or did you catch that? Because sometimes it still feels like you might think like that. That’s a conversation for John and I have on another day. I am extraordinarily driven. I mean, high intensity, high passion, but I don’t have to be reminded.

Mark Cole:
At most of the time, I don’t have to be reminded. Mark, are you looking at this through other people’s perspective? However, here’s where the blind spot about this comes from. A leader’s responsibility is to lead from her or his vantage point, not the vantage point of others. And sometimes this is how I overplay this blind spot. I spend more time after relating with people, trying to lead the people from where they are, which is good. We teach that. It’s been on this podcast a lot, but not from the vantage point of where I believe they could and should go. I overplay, allow too much weight on me to paralyze me to lead, because I look for people’s perspective too often.

Mark Cole:
And while that’s not asking, that’s not the blind spot necessarily that John’s talking about. The effect effectiveness of understanding the blind spot of where people are and how you can connect with them is why, to get them to the next level of effectiveness. And too often, we sacrifice the potential of a room that we’re in and where we could go because we’re too busy working hard on relating with where they are. You got to know where they are, but it’s just to get you prepared to take them where they want to go. And too often, when we either are naturally bent to think about the world through other people’s perspective, or we over discipline ourselves to think about the perspective of other people, we let that be the end result. And that’s only a tool to get the result of taking a group of people where they need to go.

Chris Goede:
So this is a great point. I want to pack it just a little bit. How have you grown in that area? Right like this even makes me think about back where you’ve shared this before with John is like, hey, Mark, like, you know, do you. Do you want to lead or be liked? Right. Like. And in order. We want to do both. Right.

Chris Goede:
But. But what you’re talking about now is. Is from a perspective standpoint, understanding where they’re at from their perspective, to go meet them there. You hear John say all the time, you gotta go. Gotta go find your people. In essence, that’s what you’re saying. And then. So just unpack a little bit.

Chris Goede:
But then, how have you grown in that area? And then now, what do you strategically do to understand their perspective? Cause we believe everybody needs to be led well. Everybody deserves to be led well. And in order to do that, everybody needs to be led differently. Cause they have different perspectives. So you can get where they’re at. And then you learned and have grown to move them to a bigger perspective, which, by the way, may not just be your perspective, it may be our perspective. Once you know the rising tide raises all boats, talk to us about how you’ve done that. Cause that’s interesting.

Chris Goede:
I hadn’t thought about it, this comment like that till you just explained it well.

Mark Cole:
And so every time. Every time this. This. I wish John were here in studio with us today. Every time we have a challenge that I, the leader, needs to run people through, John says, I’m not taking any time with you on helping you to connect with the people and get them where they need to go. Mark, you are better than me. Thank you, John. You are better than me in that I have nothing to offer.

Mark Cole:
You will go and relationally connect with where people are. Your challenge is, once you connect with them, a little bit of what I was just saying, once you connect with them, you oftentimes come out of the meetings and say, hey, John, I got my point across. They heard me, and he’s going, okay, they heard you and did what? They heard you and discovered what about themselves. And too oftentimes, this is a vulnerable moment for me, but you guys love my vulnerability, too. Oftentimes, I go into a very difficult meeting. In other words, we’re leading through a difficult challenge we’re really working through. The team’s not doing what they should do. We’re not moving the way we need to go.

Mark Cole:
I walk into a meeting, and I walk out of that meeting feeling awesome because I connected with them. And they even gave me some nods that we agreed on the problem. But 15 minutes after the meeting, I realized I’m heavier after the meeting than I was before the meeting. Here’s why I connected with them. They related with me. They felt appreciated by me, but they didn’t feel tasked by me. So I walked out of the meeting with greater clarity, but no less load. And as a leader, when you walk into a room and there is a challenge, your blind spot often makes you be ships passing in the night.

Mark Cole:
You never even connect with them. There’s others of us, perhaps some of you relate. We connect. We got it. But we walked out of the room carrying the load rather than sharing the load. And a leader’s responsibility when they connect with people is not just to have a Kumbaya, great relational time. Oh, I’m not missing you. I don’t have a blind spot.

Mark Cole:
I know where you are. You know where I am. It’s to move the ball forward together as a team, rather than walking out of that room. And like I do often, 15 minutes later, I still feel the same heavy load.

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Chris Goede:
You just said, move the ball. And that’s exactly where I was going to go, which is, how do you get to a point where you, instead of additional clarity, which, by the way, is needed, a reimagining communication of the vision, which is needed. The real question is, and I think what you’re talking about is here, where did you move them in that meeting? Because what you’re feeling is that 510 15 minutes later, you’re like, oh, that was awesome. Let’s go get them. And then you’re like, wait a minute. We’re still in the same spot.

Mark Cole:
We’re still in the exact same spot.

Chris Goede:
And now when am I gonna get in front of them again? When I do that? So I love that. And I think the power of this in this blind spot. Let me just recap this for you about Jon saying, man, listen, the problem with us as leaders is we do have a singular perspective for Mark Mark’s sharing. Hey, I am gifted in the area, right, that God’s given me a gift that I can go and understand their perspective. And then now I’m working and has been working on moving them to a bigger perspective. I would just challenge leaders out there. A lot of us. Listen, I get it.

Chris Goede:
Right, like, you want to, you know where you want to go. I get all that. But, man, we got to take time to understand what their perspective is and how to lead them into a greater perspective, which is Mark is sharing with us, and that’s a blind spot because we don’t take time to understand their perspective, and it’s a gap. You and I were both talking about the next point that John mentioned about the insecurity. And, you know, I have worked with a lot of leaders. You have as well. And the higher you go in leadership, it’s a lonely place, but it. It’s a weird place because I think there’s even some more self sabotaging that goes on, and they become insecure in where they’re at, but they don’t necessarily show it, so they’re dealing with it internally, and that becomes a blind spot for.

Chris Goede:
For them. Um, talk a little bit about this one and why you’re so passionate about sharing with our listeners and our viewers on YouTube about this, about this topic.

Mark Cole:
Well, so here’s why I wanted to share it today and every one of these topics. Chris, I love when you’re here because I literally, we could take one. We’ve worked so well together for so long, I say, well, that’s by faith. Maybe you wouldn’t say the same thing.

Chris Goede:
That’ll be the next podcast. Mark will not be here, and Jake and I will be in the studio.

Mark Cole:
We’ve worked so well together for so long together and think so much and had so much access to John that it’s fun just to even take one of these points and talk about it for 45 minutes. I kind of want to do, like, other podcasts out there that go 2 hours on one subject and you go, okay, I’ve had enough. I know why they do it because sometimes I want to do it. This topic right here is the one that I would love to dig into, not just with you, but I wish this was an open forum with our podcast listeners. Here’s why. Of all the blind spots that John talks about today, the blind spot that I feel the least adequate and have been the least effective in leading leaders to the best version of themselves is when the insecurity is involved can’t get them. So insecurity is a blind spot. It’s a blind spot.

Mark Cole:
It’s blind spot. But here’s the deal. You can even point out insecurities to people and they still won’t see it. And I think that’s because I’m going to act like I’m a psychologist here for a moment. I think that is because they’re embarrassed. They don’t trust the leader for them to admit it. So they will look at you blank stare when you call out their insecurities, or they cannot see that it is insecurity. They label it as something else.

Mark Cole:
Excuses. Most of your insecure leaders never deal with reality. They deal with excuses. I can’t, because they didn’t. Because whatever created the insecurity within them many, many years ago, in some cases, they have spent a lifetime insulating that insecurity. And it’s not that it’s blind to them, it’s that they don’t want to embrace it because of the insecurity that they feel. And I spent so much of my time trying to convince people of blind spots, that is insecurities in their life, rather than just calling it and giving them a chance to embrace it, telling them that it’s okay, I will support them. They don’t have their.

Mark Cole:
They can trust me with it and not be effective. And so what I would tell you, as a leader, as someone listening, if I could wish anything for you in this blind spot right here, it would be a place to where you would feel unconditional love and complete support in your blind spot. Because in specifically, in your blind spot of insecurity. Because insecurity is the easiest to work through. Some of the other blind spots that we’re talking about devaluing people, if you’re just a mean, nasty person, you can’t make mean happy. You can just teach them how to be less mean.

Chris Goede:
Right.

Mark Cole:
But an insecure person that gets confidence in who they are and who they were made to be can really begin to build on that and flourish. And I’ve just watched the insecurity, the blind spot of insecurity, which, again, often it’s not even a blind spot. It is a lack of admitting spot.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Mark Cole:
It’s not that they’re blind to it. It’s that they won’t admit it because there’s not enough trust exchange. There’s not enough. There’s too many. Too many wounds and baggages and things that have solidified that insecurity in that leader. And I have lost more leaders in my tenure of leading incredible people because of insecurity than any other reason. And I guarantee you could open up and talk about 53 insecurities that you have, but the way you lead. And that’s why I really want to talk about this, because I want you to talk about how you create this aura of the security.

Mark Cole:
Because of many leaders that I’ve worked with, I know you got insecurities. We’ve talked, we’ve been very vulnerable with one another, but you don’t lead from a place of insecurity. And I just wonder what you could add on why you don’t allow insecurities to affect your leadership.

Chris Goede:
That’s a great question. I have a great follow up question that I’m thinking about in regards to where you are going. You threw me a little curveball. Let me give you some thoughts on that. I appreciate you asking that. I have been through a lot of things. You have helped me through a lot of things. Other leaders have helped me through a lot of things.

Chris Goede:
And I think at the end of the day, because I’m a person of faith, I ultimately know that I can control what I can control. And so for me, it’s taken me some time to become secure with either my thoughts, my opinions, my ideas, whatever it might be. But I think also your, I think your wiring has a little bit to do with that. But this is going to lead me to where I want you to respond to. You and I have both have the privilege than anybody else around here, other than probably Linda Eggers, to be around and work with John for the longest amount of time. And I believe that I have been around and watched from a distance, not at the perception level. You have John, who is probably the most secure leader that I’ve ever seen and goes about thinking through decisions well ahead of making decisions. He’s way out in front of us at all times and also very secure in where he’s at, in his faith in his life and leadership and adding value to people.

Chris Goede:
And I’ve seen a lot of leaders that have come and gone like we’ve talked about, that are more worried about their insecurity in themselves than they are others. And John is so others focused, you and I could tell. That’s why I want you to respond to this, because, like, even just thinking about, you know, John’s like, oh, that’s okay. I mean, John has the most abundance mindset than anybody. And I think right here, we’re talking about this insecurity is that as leaders, we begin to think about ourselves and what’s in it for me and this and that. And John is so outwardly focused and adding value to others. And I think there’s a, there’s a connection between the two that allows him to be that. So I want you to respond to that.

Chris Goede:
But I say that because I feel like, because you and I have had the privilege of being around that environment and osmosis and, and knowing, uh, and rest assured that there’s trust there and there’s comfortability there. Not complacency. Right. But comfortability to lead in decisions that I’ve made and all kinds of that. I think that’s just over time has allowed me to do that. Now there’s definitely the self sabotaging going on. Let’s just be real. There’s the self talk that all of us go through and maybe you’re listening or watching right now and dealing with that.

Chris Goede:
That is normal. Right. Um, it’s just beginning to grow in those areas that you are, uh, you are feeling that. And that may be one of the things too. Like when I start to feel that, then because I’m a, I like to process and analyze. Like, I’m like, okay, great, well, how do I go learn? Cause I’m in a growth environment again where we’re at, where I’ve never, I would never, if I wasn’t exposed this environment, I would never have been able to get through that. And so I’ll go dig in and wanna learn more so that I feel comfortable and secure no matter what the conversation is. So respond to us about the John comment.

Chris Goede:
Cause that’s what I was thinking about when you were talking about that. I was like, man, he’s so secure that his insecurity to me and maybe to others is not a blind spot whatsoever for him. And what are those attributes that you see in him that allows him to be that way?

Mark Cole:
Well, I think, number one, he’s comfortable in his own skin. So technology, his technology will crash on stage in front of 5000 people and he’ll go, hey, Mark, come up here and help. He does. There’s no pretense or any kind of thing that happens in John’s mind that he’s inadequate. When areas that he is not known to be successful in begin to crumble, he makes those a part of his magic. So he’s very comfortable in his own skin. He doesn’t have an image that is more important than effectiveness, period. He just doesn’t.

Mark Cole:
I think the second thing that I would say that really helps John and it definitely helps me. When you’ve had enough life that you’ve been through, the fears of failure become less and less. And I hope that’s true for many of you podcasts. In the years of struggling as a business guy and the years of struggling and creating a financial. Step back before I step up. I never do that in fear of, oh, my, what if I lose everything? I’ve lost everything. It doesn’t have a power on me in the areas of reputation. I’ve had.

Mark Cole:
I’ve had years to where my reputation was absolutely, rightly so sabotaged, self sabotaged, and sabotaged by others. And after that, you kind of go, okay, I mean, what now? Yeah, what now? But I think so. I think John has had a lot of life to where those kind of things don’t have a hold on him. I think the biggest thing that I would tell you, though, is when you are learning, when you are given the opportunity of a lesson that actually shows in you a weakness, it can become your friend or your foe. And John is so passionate about growing that any time a deficiency, a shortcoming, a fallacy of some sort comes into his awareness, it’s like his best friend. Thank you. Now I’ll go work on it and get better.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. And I think that’s part of. Back to you asking that question. I think that’s part of my nature as well, just because I’ve seen it modeled from him for so long. But I do appreciate the question. Let’s talk about this last point that we want to talk about. And this is really the blind spot that I believe in the circle of leadership, and whether it is in professional organizations, whether it’s in nonprofit organizations, whether it’s in professional athletic teams, whatever it is, is this ego, and we all carry some type of ego, right?

John Maxwell:
Right.

Chris Goede:
It’s there. But yet John is challenging us here to say, hey, we got to be aware of this because it is happening. It’s a blind spot, and we need to make sure that we understand the difference between pride and humility. And when I was. When I was thinking about this point, it led me to Tim Elmore, incredible, part of our team, thought leader, content creator around the paradoxes of leadership. In the first chapter, he talks about how, as leaders, do, we have confidence and humility in the same way. And he didn’t use the word ego, but a lot of us, because it’s different, a lot of us do have ego that ends up showing up, oh, look at me. Look at me.

Chris Goede:
It becomes a little bit like I feel entitled because I am doing this. I have this title. I have it. Versus feeling like someone empowered me to be able to go and help people accomplish this, to have this opportunity. And so I see this all the time, and, man, it just breaks my heart, because, you know why? They’re unteachable. Limits their potential, all this stuff. And their people know it right away. And so when that happens, you know, John says all the time, people already know, and they can feel it and they can sense it.

Chris Goede:
And so how do we get to a point where we keep our ego in check so that it’s not a blind spot for our leadership?

Mark Cole:
Well, I think the first thing that every last one of us, I don’t care how humble you are and how aware you are of your success being because of others, which are two of the biggest things, is all of your success on a daily basis attributed to others or attributed to yourself. If you spend more time attributing to you’re a SelF made person, you really need to check your ego. To the person that’s the most humble and says, hey, I really am where I am today because of others. All of us need to understand we are all one step away from leaning into the ego that’s in all of us. So, again, wherever you are on the spectrum, you need to be aware that ego is lurking and wanting to grab you. I think where I would go with this is. I think I’ve said this a little bit on the podcast, but this year, because 2023 was just such, it was a destabilizing year in my thinking, in my confidence, in several things, I went and got a spiritual advisor this year, an organizational health advisor, spiritual advisor, kind of all in one, because the individual that I picked just has a lot of experience in both. And I did that because last year, my ego was shattered.

Mark Cole:
And you gotta have some ego. You gotta have a little bit. And so having a blind spot about your ego, you can so self deprecate and so self sabotage with your talk. You talked about this a little bit earlier, that you don’t realize that your blind spot is the lack of any self respect. And so what’s interesting, though, what’s interesting is it’s gotta be imbalance. It’s gotta be attention. So I was talking. Cause, man, this year has been so much better.

Mark Cole:
Oh, the peace that I’m running. And so what that has done is caused me to be a little bit more critical of the very people that has helped me get where I am. Okay. So I was talking to my spiritual advisor just this week as the recording of the podcast, and I said, hey, you gotta help me, because you’re encouraging me right here to get an agree. I’m getting an agreement for this person, that person, that person. He said, what’s your agreement with yourself? He said, what are your minimums on what it means for you to be healthy and for you to get focused on yourself? And we started talking through that. He said, let me. Let me help you with something.

Mark Cole:
This is a biblical reference because it was one of my spiritual advisors. He says, do you know that what caused Moses, perhaps the best leader in all of the Old Testament, of all jewish history, Moses, do you know what caused him to not be able to reach the promise? It wasn’t his leadership. It wasn’t his loving the people. It wasn’t him taking blame. Wasn’t that he couldn’t hear from the lord. It wasn’t all the things that we try to fix when we feel spiritually out of sync. He said, it was his ego. He got mad at the people.

Mark Cole:
He had already had to bring water out of the rock. For those of you that don’t know the biblical reference here, sorry. He had already had to bring that before and did it this time. He was mad that he had to do it. He knew God was going to do it. He knew it was his role to do it. But he was just flat out mad. He had too much ego.

Mark Cole:
I’m better than this. Why am I having to do this again? What’s it all about? And that moment of ego is when what he had been working and leading for all of his life, the Lord looked at him and said, hey, you’re gonna get to see it. You’re just not gonna get to experience it, because it was his ego. Now, for all of us that are out there with a tattered ego like Mark Cole was in 2023, or a little inflated ego like I might have been in the last couple of days when I had to be tweaked, ego being a blind spot in emb aware. And so you ask this question and we’ll wrap. But I want to talk a lot more. You ask this question, what can we do to keep our ego, to not let ego be a blind spot. The only way I have ever been effective at this is to truly let close people around me get to monitor whether I have no ego or whether I have too much ego, and for them speaking into my life.

Mark Cole:
And so in the area of ego, and I have a wife just like you that loves to tell me I’m too big for my britches, I let people around me determine how regulated my ego is. I don’t get to determine that. And so this week, I had a spiritual advisor say, you need a little bit more ego in this area. And I went, yeah, but anyway. Oh, okay. That’s what Moses did. But you’re not there. You’ve got to put a little more ego into your life.

Mark Cole:
And I would just tell all of us to not let ego be a blind spot. But the only way you’re gonna deal with any of these six blind spots that we’ve talked about today is getting people around you, Chris. That will help you with them, okay? That’s the only way. Because here’s the deal. As I close, you know what a blind spot is? It’s blind. What part of blind do you not understand? You cannot see it. The only way you have ever been revealed something that you can’t see is with the enlightenment of others, the enlightenment of experiences. And so in these six areas, as well as perhaps some other blind spots that you have, I’m going to really challenge you to ask the people around you, what am I missing? What’s it like to be on the other side of me? One of the things that we’ve created, because there’s so much blind spot in leadership right now, it’s just blind.

Mark Cole:
Our political leaders don’t even understand that these debates they’re having and all this kind of stuff is all about their ego and not serving the people. And so John wrote a book intentionally this year to address the blind spots in leadership, because it’s keeping us from high road leadership. I held it up a little bit earlier for our podcast viewers, but for our podcast listeners and those viewing now, this is John’s newest book, High Road, bringing people together in a world that divides. Probably more passionate about this book than any that I have been passionate about in my 25 years. And that’s because I believe not only is the book incredible, but the message of the book is needed.

Chris Goede:
I agree.

Mark Cole:
Now.

Chris Goede:
I agree.

Mark Cole:
And so we’ve got a product called High Road Leadership online. Course, I think typically it’s. I think it’s regularly dollar 299, but we want to give it to you, our podcast family, today, this week, for dollar 199, if you will go into our show notes, we’ll create a link there, or there’s a link there for you. You can click on it, use the key code podcast, and we’ll give you that discount. I want to challenge you to get out of your blind spots, eliminate your blind spots, and take the high road leadership journey with us. Because, after all, everyone deserves to be led well.