Maxwell Leadership Podcast: Momentum Breakers vs. Momentum Makers (Part 1)

Mark Cole:
Welcome back to the Maxwell Leadership podcast. This is the podcast that adds value to you, to leaders, because we want, we expect, we desire you to multiply value to others. My name is Mark Cole, and I gotta be honest with you today, I’m really excited because we’re gonna begin a two part series on Momentum. In this series, John Maxwell will teach you ten momentum breakers and momentum makers to help you create momentum in your own leadership. So we’re going to begin, and I’m going to tell you this right here, the very first one. John’s going to talk to us about how significant momentum is to your business, to your team. Now, after John is done, my co host, Chris Goede, who’s helped me make momentum, well, I’m not going to say broke momentum, but anyway, Chris and I will be here to offer some practical application and dive deeper into John’s lesson. If you’d like to watch this episode on YouTube or maybe even download the free bonus resource for this episode, please visit maxwellpodcast.com/momentummaker.

Mark Cole:
All right, one of the best momentum makers I’ve ever met here is John Maxwell.

John Maxwell:
Momentum is a leader’s best friend. You and I never have it so good as we have it. When momentum is on our side, it’s the best friend any leader has ever had. In fact, I’ll tell you what, when we don’t have momentum, it’s the biggest enemy that we have. A train going 55 miles an hour on a track can crash through a five foot concrete wall that is steel reinforced. That train can go through that wall at 55 miles an hour and not stop that same train if it is stopped on the track. If you put a one inch block in front of the driving wheel, can never even get going. A one inch block can stop a train from starting.

John Maxwell:
A five foot concrete wall, steel reinforced. Can’t stop a train once it’s moving. See, that’s why I always tell leaders, it is never the size of your problem. That is the problem. If you’re stopped on the track and you have no momentum, can I tell you something? A one inch problem will cause you a major problem. So therefore, what you have to understand as a leader is your responsibility is to understand momentum and get it kicking in your organization. The reason I’m doing this lesson is you’ve got to understand what a momentum breaker is, and you’ve got to understand how to fix it. Because leaders, under their leadership, will always have breakers come in and try to stop the momentum.

John Maxwell:
Remember, this motion causes friction. So therefore, when any organization starts moving what happens is there are people that want to jump up to stop it. A leader is to be responsible to get the ball rolling and keep the ball rolling. And what I’m going to do in this lesson is I’m going to tell you or share with you, hopefully help you. That’s what I’m going to really try to do to understand momentum and what breaks it and what makes it so that you have a clear understanding. Okay, here we go. Number one, let me give you a momentum breaker, and then let me give you a momentum maker. A momentum breaker is double mindedness.

John Maxwell:
A momentum maker is focused. Do you see the difference between the two? Momentum is developed by creating a clear and focused vision statement. Momentum is drained by shooting at nothing or attempting everything. If you’re double minded or you lack focus or lack the ability to hone in, I promise you, you will always break the momentum of your organization. You know why? It’s a rabbit trail. You’re starting to go forward. You see? Oh, well, let’s do this. Oh, we can do this, too.

John Maxwell:
And you’re not staying on the track, and you’re breaking the momentum. Every time you look to the right, two to the left, and do a u turn in life, you, as a leader, draw the target. Watch this. You get the target up and say, this is what we’re going for as a group. The moment that you cast vision, focus, draw the target, which is a momentum maker. There are five responses that you’ll get to that vision. There are what I call in any group refreshers. Refreshers are people that when you lay out the vision of the dream, they inspire dreams and they invest in them.

John Maxwell:
Okay. The second group of people in your group are what I call refiners. Refiners will take your idea, and they’ll sharpen it, and they’ll begin to clarify your vision. And that is very healthy, to have refiners in your group. They’ll. You know what the refiners will do? Refiners will take your idea and make it a better idea. Then the third type of person you have in every group is reflectors. They don’t create energy, nor do they detract from your vision.

John Maxwell:
You know what I call them? They’re kind of what I call mirror people. They will just. They’ll reflect back to you what you just put into it. The energy that you put in is the energy they give back. The fourth group is what I call the reducers. They’ll reduce your vision to their comfort zone, their goal. When you put out the dream is to make that dream a lot smaller so it fits their comfort zone. Remember this, your goal as a leader is never to live in someone else’s comfort zone.

John Maxwell:
Your goal is to get them out of that comfort zone, because great accomplishments are never great in a person’s comfort zone. The last group you got refreshers, refiners, reflectors, reducers. The last one probably will start with an r two, don’t you think? Rejecters. You’ll have people that will never buy into the dream. In fact, what I call, you know what they do? They drain the dream. What their goal is, is to suck out every good idea that you ever had and reduce it to a fair idea. Now, what you always got to understand is you’ll have them in every group, but unless you allow them to get to you, your inner being, they’ll never drain your dream. Okay, number two momentum breaker.

John Maxwell:
Let me give you another example of a momentum breaker. The past is a momentum breaker. A momentum maker is the future. All I’m asking you is, where you living? Are you living yesterday? Are you living tomorrow? Momentum is developed by pointing to a better day ahead picture, and momentum is drained by looking back to what might have been. The third momentum breaker is individual and the momentum maker write the word team. I learned a long time ago, if you want to break momentum, do it on your own. But if you want to make momentum, do it with someone else. Momentum is developed when everyone pulls together, and momentum is drained when everyone pulls apart.

John Maxwell:
And the true measure of a leader is not getting people to work. And the true measure of a leader is not getting people to work hard. The true measure of a leader is getting people to work hard together. That’s the key. The level of our celebration on the team is determined by the level of our participation. We celebrate to the level that we participate. That’s why those who participate the most celebrate the most. Isn’t that right, number four? Momentum breaker.

John Maxwell:
A momentum breaker number four is a critical attitude. A momentum maker is a constructive attitude. In other words, are you tearing down or are you building up? Momentum is developed when the attitude of the people is helpful, and momentum is drained when the attitude of the people is hurtful. Momentum breaker number five, are you ready? Here we go. Momentum breaker number five is tradition, and momentum maker is creativity. Momentum is developed when creativity is placed high in the organization’s priority list, and momentum is drained when tradition is placed high in the organization’s priority list. Now, what I’m talking about is momentum breakers are tradition. I’m telling you, if you always do what you’ve always done.

John Maxwell:
You’ll always get what you’ve always got. And all we have to do is we got to go back and look at the past and ask ourselves, are we still operating? Same old, same old. Not all corporate traditions are bad. Not every innovation is a winner. Executives who can tell the difference make it big. Here are some negatives and positives to watch out for, such as the what I call that’s how we’ve always done it. Defense of a method or policy should always be challenged. It’s not a reason for doing things, but it’s an excuse for not changing them.

John Maxwell:
Or traditions that produce satisfactory results over time have an added psychological advantage. They’ll give us an extra sense of security, et cetera, et cetera. Or always test what works. Now, today, it may well be the method five or ten years ago. Or it may have to be replacing a year old winner because today is a loser. Or learn to move fast. Anticipate change whenever you can. It’ll give you a chance to test the old versus the new.

John Maxwell:
Understand problems let me stop here for a moment on understanding problems. It’s very important to always understand why a decision was made, even it was made before you arrived. Here’s the old saying I’ve always used is never tear down the fence until you know why it was constructed. And the moment you understand that, you may want to tear it down, but you always first of all, find out why it was built up. And then finally question both tradition and innovation. The thoughtful questioner always will run ahead of the pack. Okay, how to stay in the groove without making it a rut is a problem of every executive.

Maxwell Leadership Certified Team:
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Mark Cole:
Hey, welcome back. Our team always gives us one of these standout statements, and I mentioned it in the introduction to the lesson. Momentum is key, but what John says is Momentum is a leader’s best friend. And Chris, we’ve led in environments with momentum. We’ve led environments with no momentum. We’ve led in environments with morale and low morale.

Chris Goede:
That’s right.

Mark Cole:
And I couldn’t agree with that statement more. Boy, it feels like flying high when you have momentum, when you have a good morale. So I’m glad to be talking about this with you.

Chris Goede:
Super excited. I love that. And, you know, John has always taught us, when you have it, just remember it’s the momentum, it’s not your leadership, and you’re not as good as you think that momentum is. And then also the other side of that. Right. When things are, when we’re grinding and things are tough, it may have something to do with your leadership, but it’s not a direct of all of your leadership. Right. But momentum is your best friend.

Chris Goede:
I love what you said. One of the greatest momentum makers that we’ve had the privilege to be around is John Maxwell.

Mark Cole:
That’s the truth.

Chris Goede:
We’re going to talk about a lot of these things in this lesson about how you create and make momentum. And you and I can go back and see so many examples of him living this out. And so I’m super excited to dive into this with you in regards to momentum. Well, I want to start here. I think I’ve seen in your leadership over the last couple of years where you’ve become very clear on what your, your calling is, what your, your leadership should look like, and then you’ve created momentum around that. There are times, and you would admit this, there are times you kind of go, hmm, you kind of feel like you’re sliding away from that. Because I think this all starts inside a leader, inside you. And you came to this realization just recently and you were sharing with our team and with our leadership team about, hey, I know it’s contagious as a leader, what comes out of me, whether it’s hope, whether it’s vision, whether whatever it is, and part of that is your responsibility to create momentum inside the organization.

Chris Goede:
What I want you to do is I want you to react to that, because there are two different feelings. How you felt about twelve months ago through some of the things we were working through to maybe how you felt the first six months. Because if I sit back and look at your leadership, I go, man, that is a difference of Mark Cole leading with momentum, creating momentum, versus, hey, we’re just, we’re just hanging on, right? We’re in the valley, so talk a little bit about that from your leadership perspective on how that feels as a leader, how did you create it? How did you change it? Like, let’s just start right there and just tell those that are listening or watching that experience that you went through the last couple of months.

Mark Cole:
What I love about this is it was about five weeks ago, Chris. I met with our leadership team that was like one day after John and I did this call together with, like, only 50 people. And you have all this access to John and Gary, one of our podcast listeners. He came on and said, I don’t have a question for John. I have a question for me. Well, number one, I felt like I had arrived. John Maxwell, the best leadership expert that I know, in demand around the world. People pay literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend a day with John.

Mark Cole:
They do it. And Gary had a question with me. Gary, my podcast Buddy. You’re the man. Here’s what he said. He said you were very open all of 2023 about how difficult that year was. What did you do and what did you do to inspire the people around you? This was the exact question. What did you do and what type of people did you put around you to change the trajectory of momentum? And so we’re going to get into that today.

Mark Cole:
And you just kind of set that up. You weren’t even on that environment. And Gary asked that question. I’ll tell you, just from both sides, which is what you asked me. I believe, for me, I believe the fruit that my leadership received during the difficult time when it didn’t feel like momentum is really what makes the momentum that I’m starting to feel with our team that much greater. I also believe that I will be a better steward. I will be more responsible with the momentum as I’m seeing it pick back up in the organization. I’ve had some great leaders that’s done some great things.

Mark Cole:
You know this, Chris. John has invited us into his circle of influence, and we’ve met some brilliant leaders that’s done some great things. The more I talk to them, the more I hear how much they appreciate the times where their momentum was broken and the reigniting of broken momentum. So, for all of our podcast listeners that’s listening today, first thing I want to tell you, we’re getting ready to spend two weeks with you talking about the reality that there are momentum makers, there are momentum breakers, and all of us seasoned leaders, I’m more seasoned now, Chris. All of us seasoned leaders have been through times to where we have had broken momentum and we’ve had times where momentum was happening. We’re going, how is this happening? And why didn’t it happen a long time ago? That is normal. That is okay. And I’m gonna tell you this as you asked, on the both sides.

Mark Cole:
I don’t want either side any more than the other. Now, I would like to very quickly in any organization, be going toward the momentum makers, but I cherish what I’ve learned in the broken parts of momentum in our culture, because I think it’ll make us a more sustaining leader. According to all the expert leaders of highly accomplished teams and projects and missions that I’ve talked to, they all had that moment.

Chris Goede:
What was awesome about watching you go through that, cause you were open and shared it with us and our podcast listeners was those that have gone before you that have led things differently than you, um, went through the same thing.

Mark Cole:
Yeah.

Chris Goede:
So I love the fact you’re just saying, hey, you’re gonna go through this as a leader, by the way. Maybe not even in professionally. It could be your personal life, it could be with family, whatever it is, just understand, you’re gonna have momentum makers and momentum breakers. Yeah, go ahead.

Mark Cole:
Well, I wanna say this because you triggered something that you asked just a moment ago in what you were just saying. We spent a lot of time talking about our problems. We did maybe too much time, but I’ll never forget the time to where we did not have momentum yet. I looked at the team and I said, okay, I’m done talking about what we don’t have. And I’m now going to lift my vision and talk about where we’re going and what we do have. And I said, in 2024, you will not hear a meeting that reminds you of last year from me, now our finance officer. You’re going to hear a couple of those kind of meetings. You’re a business leader.

Mark Cole:
You’re going to hear a few of those meetings because we got a talk turkey sometimes. But from the visionary, there comes a time to where you quit talking about what the momentum broken has done and accomplished. And you start talking about making momentum and you speak it into existence, meaning this. You begin to lift the eyes of the people that you’re leading. And when you come into the room, there is a lift that begins to make that hope and optimism begin to change the dynamic of your culture.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, there’s no doubt that it impacts the engagement and the productivity of the team. When you do that and you acknowledge that, you said, I’m not coming in with my head in the sand. Right. Like, we got a lot of work to do. But I am not going to. Right. And you change the way that you are delivering that message and what your vision was. And so let’s dive in because I want to hit a couple of these points and I want to keep this theme of your growth, your leadership throughout some of these momentum breakers and makers.

Chris Goede:
So John talks about this first one, which is around double mindedness or focused. I have to be honest, I started smiling when I go, man, momentum makers around focus. There is not an opportunity that John Maxwell or you lately have not seen where we go, let’s go give this a shot. Let’s go try that. And we’re going, well, wait a minute, we’re losing focus. But when you step back and you look at it, and I started thinking about this lesson as I was preparing for our time together. I thought, oh, no, no, wait a minute. The focus is around what John and Mark are very clear about where we’re going.

Chris Goede:
So when you get focused, it allows you to have this clarity and the direction you can hold us accountable. We talked a lot about that this morning as we’re recording today in a leadership team meeting and drive engagement with us and be able to communicate extremely clear on where we’re going, the years of ideas and that you and John have kicked around the opportunities. How have you seen him and then yourself now lead through really getting focused around all these opportunities so I can build momentum around those things versus allowing it just to be another busy thing and we begin to lose momentum.

Mark Cole:
Yeah. I think in the world of entrepreneurism, and I’ve learned from one of the best opportunists in the world, Chris, that that’s a really hard one because vision sometimes and opportunities is really, they are the same thing. But sometimes you don’t let a new opportunity either make or break your momentum. It’s just the fact that we’re an entrepreneur organization and we’re going to try something new that we’ve never done, you have to detach it from culture and from momentum. And here’s why. If you’re an entrepreneur, opportunistic environment like we are, and you attach your momentum makers off of new ideas, and we’re trying one about once every other month, and we’re very proud that our fail rate on new ideas is higher than our success rates because it means we’re constantly doing things well. If I tie momentum to our, the results of our ideas, then I’ve got a momentum breaker, I guarantee you. But if I tie our hope to the fact that this is an entrepreneur, we’re going to keep trying things.

Mark Cole:
And we’re super excited that we have another idea and another opportunity to pursue. You have a momentum maker because we’re still around. We got a new idea to do. There’s an art to that, there’s a craft to that. And so what I have found through my last four years of leading with John in a different capacity is I attached too often to the ability to execute on yesterday’s ideas, because I’m trying to build processes and systems into our culture, and John’s still out there with an idea. A minute. And when I began to infuse John back into some of these ideas that I wanted to pursue, which disrupts the processes, I’ve had to rearrange people’s thinking from looking at the success of our process as what builds our culture, to the fact that we’re trying a new opportunity from John Maxwell as our culture. And that hope has begun to change and people are catching on to that.

Chris Goede:
I think I remember you at one point in time even modeling this inside our organization to where an individual on our team tried something, had a lot of great focus, but there was an opportunity there you wanted them to run. Run with, and it didn’t work out. And I think you stood up and gave him a standing.

Mark Cole:
That’s right. They tried it.

Chris Goede:
And then our CFO told you to sit down.

Mark Cole:
He pulled.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, but to your point, right, like, yeah, what we want you to hear is that you, you have to run those opportunities out. You have to vet them. As long as that focus and the clarity is in alignment with what you are going after, which that’s where you and John are. You know what that is. You know what the end state is for you guys and allows you to have great focus. So John then goes into five responses to a leader’s vision. When you start having these ideas, and I go, man, yep, I think I’ve done that to mark. Yep, I think I’ve done that right there, too.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, I’ve rejected his dream before. I just didn’t tell him. But let’s go through these because I kind of broke them out and I said, okay, we got two of them that are a positive response to the leader’s vision. One is neutral, kind of the reflector John talked about as the mirror, and then the last two are reducers and rejecters. Don’t use me as an example on the last two, but talk to me a little bit about this in your leadership and how you’ve seen these play out in people that you’ve had around you or maybe even you with John and how maybe you’ve played different roles at different times.

Mark Cole:
Well, what’s so funny is as you’re doing this, I’m looking back into my notes and I’m really, there’s small print there. So for those of you watching on YouTube, and you haven’t seen me in readers, watch this. Get my readers here and I’m gonna put them on. So let me tell you, what I had to do early on with John is, John is so optimistic, he is so unencumbered by having to execute on good ideas that my natural tendency, which is an id on the desk, I’m a high inspire, I’m a driver and so I’m an id. I found out that with John as the man and me as his implementer, that I had to become a refiner to him. When ideas come, I had to be a reducer with him because he would talk big pie in the sky. To come back to people that had to execute on that was demotivating. They love to hear John say it, but when the day to day leader comes back and minimizes the hard work of executing on a Maxwell size idea, it’s demotivating and they start missing.

Mark Cole:
So I had to come in and reduce it to communicate it to the team so that it felt doable in.

Chris Goede:
Execution in order to keep momentum.

Mark Cole:
Exactly.

Chris Goede:
Otherwise they’re just gonna shut down on you.

Mark Cole:
They’re gonna shut down on you. What I have discovered, and you’ve watched me grow through this, and I’m talking about it has been painful for all of us. It’s now time for me to be that inspirational and let another environment that I’m not in talk about reducing it down and getting it done and letting the visionary go.

Chris Goede:
We’re having those conversations.

Mark Cole:
I know you are.

Chris Goede:
Everybody listening, we. I just want you to know we are having those conversations.

Mark Cole:
I love, and I’m glad you are, by the way, because I remember having them on behalf of John. But when you look at, again, here’s my readers there, YouTube listeners or what viewers, when you look at this, you need to make sure you have somebody on the team that is feeling one of these functions as it relates to a leader’s vision. When your vision is beginning to be communicated, you’ve got to have people on your team that will refresh it, that will refine it, that will reflect it, that will reduce it, that will reject it. You know, it’s funny because I’m sitting here today, Chris, you did this about seven months ago, you introduced me to a guy named Jesse Cole. Now, I’m slow to the mix, all of you listening and watching. You know, Jesse Cole is the founder of Savannah Bananas, which is some of the most entertaining sports out there. Waiting lists, sometimes two years to get into a Savannah banana event and experience. And it’s entertainment, baseball, and they have a great time.

Mark Cole:
It’s a great team. They do incredible. I could talk about them for years because you introduced me to him at an event called exchange, and I’ll come back to that in just a moment. But let me. Let me tell you what he taught that day. He said, when it comes to a leader trying to creative ideas, you got to have four people on your team. And I was reminded of this when John was talking, and this is Jesse Coles. So go check him out.

Mark Cole:
I was introduced to him because of an event that Chris does, and it’s called you got to have a care team. C a r e. You got to have a creator, you got to have an advancer, you got to have a refiner, and you got to have an executor. And if you let an executor get into a conversation too soon with a creative idea, you will kill it before it’s ever had a chance to draw its first breath. So Jesse went through this incredible things in one of his books. I promise you, pick it up, you will love it that we’ve got to have creators, advancers, refiners, and executors on our team. I think that’s true with vision, too. Yeah, I think we have to get somebody that can create on that vision.

Mark Cole:
They can go say, oh, that’s the vision. Let me go get creative with that vision. You got to have people that advance it. They’re just repeaters. I talked to one of mine and your friends, our co leaders today, and I said, hey, just go repeat it. Just go repeat it. That’s all I want you to do. Just repeat it.

Mark Cole:
And by the way, when he repeats it, all you people like it that he repeated it. And then the third thing is a refiner. Get somebody that’ll tighten it up for you, because all of us out there seeing squirrels, every tree, and seeing all these great ideas, you’re killing us if you don’t get a refiner on your team and then get somebody that can execute it. I’m going to tell you this right here, and we could talk about that all day, but I’m going to tell you what Jesse Cole taught me with. Truly, he’s revolutionizing entertainment and sports. He’s revolutionizing and you introduced me to that. And I’m just going to tell you, it made me think in an incredible way. In fact, I was telling you right before recording that, Chris, what you do at these exchange events challenges me as a leader.

Mark Cole:
And I’m just going to ask you, podcast family, what are you doing in 2024? You still got about five months. What are you doing to challenge your creativity, your vision and your team? Building around creativity and vision, one of the things that we do every single year, we’re doing it again this year in November in Austin, Texas. I promise you, you will never see Austin, Texas, the same again. I will never see it coming. And every year, you incredibly challenge me with this exchange event. Can you give us like one or two quick, quick things that you’re doing in exchange this year that will, that will challenge us?

Chris Goede:
Yeah, I would love to. The first thing is everybody loves the amount of time that they get to spend with you and John. It’s two and a half days in a small group, businessmen and women exchanging ideas and thoughts. And so John’s challenge to us always is, hey, I want them to experience something with us that they couldn’t do on their own. That’s our challenge every year for our team. And so this year will be the same in Austin, Texas. I’ll go ahead and give you a couple of our speakers. We have lined up maybe an experience or two we’re going to have there.

Chris Goede:
We’re going to have Kendra Scott. She’s from Austin. Love that she changed her plans to be a part of what we’re doing. Changed her plans.

Mark Cole:
Hey, you know why that is podcast family? Because she came on this podcast and loved talking to you. And I promise you, what Kendra Scott has done with to be a woman leader that has revolutionized an industry and dealt with challenges that should have stopped her is inspiring for all of us.

Chris Goede:
And has set many, many entrepreneurs on their way to success. We’re going to have some of them there.

Mark Cole:
Good.

Chris Goede:
Some of their products. And you see another one changing. Kind of. You can kind of say the word change around exchanges here, and I’ll be quick because what we’re talking about leading through change, a guy by the name of Daryl Eves, right. He is a YouTube expert. He’s in the space of man. How do I figure online strategy for your business? And by the way, he’s partnered with a gentleman that has changed some of the directing and producing arena right now, Dallas Jenkins, who they both are doing the chosen.

Mark Cole:
Wow.

Chris Goede:
So we’re going to have them there with us with you and John. We’re going to do a Dallas Jenkins.

Mark Cole:
Is going to be there. Who founded this, created it for the chosen. Come on.

Chris Goede:
And Darrell took his, his strategy and YouTube part and help promote it to be what it is today. So we’re gonna talk about that from a business and how do you use that? And then we’re gonna do a traditional Austin ranch experience. And that’s all I’m gonna say about it. Okay. But I know Jake’s gonna put, put the link in the show notes and all kinds of stuff. That’s not why we’re here. But it did come out of this model with care because we, that’s what we do at exchange. And so I do appreciate you.

Chris Goede:
It’s one of my favorite events of the year.

Mark Cole:
It’s one of the best things we’ve done. We’ve been doing it for 20 years. And let me remind you guys, you are getting two and a half days of direct access to John and truly me and Chris. We’ll see how that plays out of. You want to be a part of this? With the creativity, we only, we limit it to about 110, 120 people that will come in. You’ll have a lot of access. You’ll meet a lot of people. You need to go check it out.

Mark Cole:
It’ll be in the show notes. Now, let’s get back to this right here. You want to say one more thing on it?

Chris Goede:
Not on exchange. I want to go back because I want to talk about what you brought this out about, Jesse, and I want you to talk about your leadership real quick into where I’ve seen you play different roles. It’s interesting. I was thinking about this as you were just talking about. Hmm. I think we can all play different roles at different seasons of our life, different times of a project for a leader. Depending on your skill set and where you naturally fall, you may, you may do one more than the other. But when you look at your leadership right now and where you’re at, right.

Chris Goede:
I now seen you create more than in the past. That makes sense, right? Because of John in the passing baton, where John used to create everything, and he would come along to your point and you would advance it, and then you would figure out, how do I refine it? And then, no, by the way, we’re going to execute on it right now. Where do you find yourself and your leadership sitting most of the time when Mark Cole is, is sitting down. Right. Was remarkable. And we’re thinking on the business, by the way. We should be thinking more on it. Than in it.

Chris Goede:
Where do you go naturally as a leader? And then what do you think about during that time?

Mark Cole:
So John is still extremely active, extremely active in the vision and opportunity, in creating opportunity. And so I continue to find myself trying to get myself out of the refining, is this possible? Is this okay role? I’ve worked very diligently and you know this, you and Reggie and others on our team has freed me up. I’ve worked diligently to unencumber my ideas from can this really happen? And a creator does not need to be stymied with can this happen? They need to be challenged with what’s going to happen when this does happen. And it’s a different mindset. And so I’m in an in between stage as I answer that question. I am getting better at creativity. You guys are giving me flexibility around the operational components of the organization to get better at that. But I will tell you this, and this was an incredible compliment, it’s not going to sound like it, but it’s how John and I talk very candidly.

Mark Cole:
He said, mark, there was a time, he told me this just 24 hours ago from recording. He said, mark, there was a time that I went, he’s never going to be able to build. He’s going to always have to partner with somebody to build. And I went, oh, that’s nice. He’s always talked about how he loves builders, how he loves builders. I guess he’s tolerating me. And that’s not at all what John was saying, but he said, the last four to six weeks, I’ve watched you start engaging in things from a possibility standpoint than a probability, or even from a probably not. And he said, I sit here the other day and I went, I think Mark has the makings of learning how to do that now.

Mark Cole:
I don’t know that I’ll ever be as good of a builder as John. Don’t even want to be, but I do want to develop that within me. And it was very encouraging. But I’m having to unencumber a lot of thinking that I’ve had, as John’s implemented, to become Maxwell leadership’s creator. And it is a lot of challenges. I’m still going to get people that’ll think bigger, better than, faster than me. But I’m really thankful for that. Cause my point in even saying that to all of us, Chris, is you might go, man, I could never think like that.

Mark Cole:
I’m designed this way. No. Yeah, you can. You can hone your gifts and talents.

Chris Goede:
And I think it’s just like, to your point, it’s gonna be hard work and you’re gonna have to work through it, but there’s gonna be different seasons. And I see you making that. That transition, and I know that that meant a lot for John to say that to you because that’s your calling, and that’s where we’re at now. Listen, we spent a lot of time on point number one.

John Maxwell:
I loved it.

Chris Goede:
We often get in trouble by Jake because we go long on these podcasts. And so that’s it for today. No, I’m just kidding. We do want to go one more. But the reason mark and I wanted to stay right here at focus, and I think. I think Jon intentionally had this first.

Mark Cole:
He did.

Chris Goede:
This is where it starts right here, man. You’ve got to be focused to create momentum. You got to be focused on the small things and then at least big things. You got to stay focused on the momentum so that as a leader, you know what’s going on there. But I want to come to the fourth item that he gave us today around the momentum breaker of having a critical attitude versus man, if you have a constructive attitude, that is going to create momentum. When I say critical attitude, that almost repels our DNA. Right? Like, I’m like, no, no, no. I can’t.

Chris Goede:
We can’t have that at maximal leadership. We’ve just grown up in. In a culture where that’s not really accepted. Now, we want to hear your feedback. We want to have tough conversations. We want it to be constructive, not critical. And you and John, I know, have been talking a lot to leaders around organizations and around the world about how the attribute of being coachable and taking responsibility is something that every leader should think about. And when you have that, I would say that that creates momentum because that goes directly to being able to have a constructive attitude, be able to receive constructive feedback.

Chris Goede:
How do I get better? And again, we were just talking about earlier today about that being able to take accountability and responsibility. Tell us a little bit about this attribute to where you and John are now and you’re having leadership conversations and how you see that in other leaders, other organizations, maybe yourself in creating momentum in what you’re doing.

Mark Cole:
Boy, I just wish we could do a whole podcast on this because it’s so fresh on my mind. I’ve got three quick examples that I’m going to give you how John and I have talked about this. Just. I’ve mentioned a conversation that I had with him in the last 24 hours. In that same conversation, we had this conversation about how critical people for our personality is a momentum breaker. And we talked about how people that give us lift, critique, critique it, give us some constructive criticism, but how that is a momentum maker for us. It’s so funny that you asked this and wanted to go dig down in this, because for years, I have felt like I’ve had to be more critiquing as the person that had to implement, and it’s needed. It’s not even there.

Mark Cole:
But that voice cannot be the loudest voice. If you would ask most anybody throughout my entire life, they would go, Mark, you’re so positive. Thanks for inspiring us. I hear that all. I’ve heard that a lot throughout my life. In fact, it matches to my life purpose. I exist to motivate and inspire people to reach their full potential. But I wouldn’t give the microphone to Kimberly, who’s the real, the real driver behind Maxwell leaderships in the studio today.

Mark Cole:
Kimberly, my executive partner, she would literally, if you pressed her, she wouldn’t say this publicly, but if you pressed her, she’d say, how critical is Mark right now or in the past five years? And I don’t even want to know what her percentage would be because I have learned to become way too critical, and it is nothing helpful in the role that I am in. It’s a breaker. Now, John was having a very, very personal conversation with me again recently, and he said, mark, I’ve got to be honest with you. When people are critical of what I have done or critical of what is possible, it breaks my momentum at a personal level. I have to work really hard when people are critical. He said, but, boy, when I get around somebody that gives me constructive criticism that I can go to work on, it is energizing to me. Here’s how he said it. He said, mark, I never get concerned of what I don’t know and what I will find out when I do know.

Mark Cole:
He said, what I get concerned about is when I’m not pursuing. Finding out. Wow. Blew me away. Chris, you’ve never heard him say that. I’ve never heard him say that, but it’s exactly true. But how I find out is not through criticism. I find out through constructive attitude that keeps encouraging me to keep finding it out.

Mark Cole:
And yet I’ve become, in some cases, the personality that doesn’t even feed me. And that one question of if you’re critical, and I’m not saying that we don’t need criticism around us, I don’t think. But my personality don’t work well with that. I want constructive perspective that lifts me. And we as leaders need to work on that aspect because as John says, man, I, when I get criticism all the time, criticism all the time, criticism all the time, guess what? I’m gonna change the people around me because I want construction all around. I want people that are being constructive with me.

Chris Goede:
So as we, and I agree with everything that you said, we, we want that type of feedback. We want tough conversations. As we wrap up today’s lesson, I want to stay here for just a minute. I want you to close with this thought. I was sitting here listening to you and I was thinking about the difference between being critical and being constructive. And I was having this image of critical being a one way conversation where I’m telling you this, I’m telling you that, and I’m being very negative in a way, and then I remove myself from that situation. Constructive. I was having this, this thought about that.

Chris Goede:
I’m in it with you. I’m helping you construct what needs to get better. It becomes this coachable thing. So as we wrap up today, talk about the momentum piece, because we’re talking about creative momentum, of working with people, with teams, with family members, when not only you’re coachable, but they’re coachable. And how that synergy and how you’ve experienced momentum through that coachability in people.

Mark Cole:
Yeah, I do think it’s both. People have to come with a desire to construct something, to build something, construct, build something. And when a person comes to the table, I talked, I talked recently, you talked about, before the show started, you talked a little bit about my recent conversation about responsibility and accountability. And I have found that oftentimes we will come into a room and we won’t hold ourselves accountable for five or six phases or reasons that we go through to where somebody can really be constructive with us. The person that’s really wanting to help us is unchanged. Our ability to allow that feedback to be constructive rather than taking it as critical is all in our ability to receive it correctly. Now, there are people, I just talked about this, that they’re critical, man, I’m telling you. I think I agree with John Boy.

Mark Cole:
I’m getting ready to go out on a limb. Change who you’re talking to if they’re critical, but don’t automatically assume they’re critical, even if it sounds critical. You may be in a place of resistance, you may be in a place of denial, you may be in a place of paralyzed that makes you think that somebody is being critical. And it’s just the fact that you’re not being accountable, and we’ll talk more about that later because it’s fresh and hot on my mind. But I’m going to tell you, I think that what John has taught us today and what Chris and I have really tried to work with us on podcast family is you need to be making momentum and you need to be assessing yourself every day to make sure you’re not adapting some of these principles John shared today and breaking momentum. And so we’re going to talk more about that. Chris, just real quick, I want to go back to exchange because I want some podcast family to come meet me for the first time and come spend two and a half days with John Maxwell. He’s there morning to late evening riding on buses.

Mark Cole:
Whatever we’re doing, however we’re going, he’s there accessible. And we got these incredible thinkers that’s going to be there. So I know we’re going to put it in the show notes, but what’s the website where people can go to?

Chris Goede:
Maxwellleadership.com exchange.

Mark Cole:
Maxwellleadership.com exchange. And they got it right. Hey, I want to see you. It’s in November. I want to see you. Hey mercy, I love the comment you made on the podcast success. Keeping it simple, here’s what Mercy said. John always has a way of adding value into my life and every podcast I glean more.

Mark Cole:
My takeaway today, regret is an appalling waste of energy. Mercy, I couldn’t agree. People want powerful, positive change because everyone deserves to be led well.

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