Maxwell Leadership Podcast: Success: Keep It Simple

Mark Cole:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership podcast. The goal of this podcast is to add value to leaders who multiply value to others. In this week’s episode, John Maxwell is talking about two words that guarantee success in leadership. No matter what you do or who you lead. Taking what’s complicated and making it simple is the key to providing clear direction and effectiveness to those around you. After John’s lesson, my good friend and co host Chris Goede joins me, and we will discuss how you can apply what John has taught to both your life and your leadership. If you would like to download the bonus resource for this episode or watch this episode on YouTube, please visit maxwellpodcast.com/KeepItSimple.

Mark Cole:
This is going to be a great one. I am so excited that you’re here. Let’s get ready. Here is John Maxwell.

John Maxwell:
There are two words that guarantee success. Number one is simple. And why does simple guarantee success? Because simple makes something easy to understand. You know, in other words, you can’t succeed in what you don’t understand. So simple kind of makes everything easy to understand. The second word is works. And works make it consistent, consistently effective, and practical. Okay, so we’re going to talk about simple, which is the part of the understanding works, which is part of the practice of effectively being able to do something that really has a good return.

John Maxwell:
Now, there are two questions I ask before giving direction as a leader. Questions are. And the questions you would want to ask as leaders, what do you want them to know? That gets back to, what do you want to understand? Okay, that goes back to simple. Simple makes things easy to understand. And what do you want them to do? That’s all about work. Warren Buffett said the business schools reward difficult, complex behavior, but simple behavior is more effective. You’ve already heard me too many times say difference between educator and communicator. Educator takes something simple, makes it complicated.

John Maxwell:
A communicator takes something complicated, makes it simple. Okay. Genius is the ability to reduce the complicated to the simple. In my book, everyone communicates. Few connect. I make the statement that connectors do the difficult work of keeping it simple. And I think this is what’s so key is the fact that it’s very difficult to keep things simple. But you have to really protect that if you want to communicate and connect.

John Maxwell:
How do we get to simple? Well, first of all, they’re simplistic. And simplistic is fast and shallow. Okay? It’s the things that we say that are sayings, but we probably haven’t thought them through. Experience is the best teacher. Okay? It’s fast. It’s shallow. Complexity is slow and deep. When you, all of a sudden, you decide to make something complex, you slow way down, and simple is fast and deep.

John Maxwell:
Oh, I like that. Now, notice how this process works. Simplistic is fast and shallow. Complexity is slow and deep, but simple is fast. In other words, you can get through it quickly, but it is also deep. Simplistic. Ask no questions. Complexity.

John Maxwell:
Ask many questions. Simple answers, questions. Most of the world lives on that simplistic level. They think on that level, they speak on that level, they receive on that level. But for the few people that will go down to complexity and let that process, which is slow and it is deep, let that process really marinate, there’s amazing rewards on the other end. So let’s talk about complexity, because here’s the question. If complexity is where you’re going to get this major evolution change, how do you take something that is simplistic and put it in the complexity area and come out with something? So I’m going to help you here. Okay.

John Maxwell:
There are what I call complexity questions you need to ask and goes to that statement I put in your notes. If you know the right questions, you will ultimately receive the right answers. So let me give you the questions that I go through when I’m trying to sort things out that are too simplistic to last. First of all, is the intuitive question. And the intuitive question I just simply ask myself, how do I feel about this? How do I feel about this? In other words, does this seem right to me? Do I intuitively buy into this myself? How do I feel about this? Never ignore a gut feeling, but never believe that it is enough. So when people say, you know, I just got a gut feeling about this, I look up, okay, I like that. What else do you have besides your gut? What else do we have here? Okay. Okay.

John Maxwell:
Number two, the second question is the right people question. And the right people question. Simply ask, do people who are successful in this area agree with this? In other words, when something comes out simplistic, I want to know what people that are successful in that area think about that themselves. And then I put this statement, the weight of a person’s words should be placed upon what they have done successfully. So when you ask me, how do you weigh a person’s words? I weigh a person’s words by their track record. And so if somebody has a track record of success in their subject area, I weigh the words much more heavily than I do with somebody who has knowledge in that area. Number three is the yesterday question. And the yesterday question simply asks, does the past validate this? In other words, when somebody says something like that, I say, does history prove this? Has this been something that’s been proven? Because the best predictor of what a person will do today is based upon what that person did yesterday.

John Maxwell:
The fourth question I ask myself in complexity, is the foundation question. And the foundation question simply asks, can this bear the weight of time, opinions, thought and adversity? Only ideas, behavior, and people who are solid will last. Question number five is the example question. What examples? Credit or discredit this thought. When somebody gives you a simplistic thing, what kind of examples would back this up? Credit or discredit a pint equal a gallon. What’s that formula mean when it says a pint equal a gallon? A pint of example is equal to a gallon of advice. Okay, number six is the connecting question. The connecting question just simply asks, does this connect with the heart and the mind? In other words, does my heart and my mind respond to this? Before communication, a connector asks, does anyone care? Simple doesn’t work if simple doesn’t relate.

John Maxwell:
So it has to be more than just the understanding of the mind. It has to be the acceptance of the heart. Now, I love this question. Number seven, the signature question. After much thought and consideration, can I sign off on this? See, simple plus true plus passion equals persuasion. So you take something simple, something that is true, put passion with it, and all of a sudden you are persuading others. So let’s review. Okay.

John Maxwell:
Simplistic is fast and shallow. Complexity is slow and deep. Simple is fast and deep. Simplicity asks no questions. Complexity asks many questions. I just gave you seven questions. Complexity asked simple answers questions. Let’s go on.

John Maxwell:
Simplistic embraces popular thought. Complexity embraces frequency. We’re going to teach that in a moment. And simple embraces proven thought. So I not only ask questions to get through this complexity issue, I do the frequency formula to get through complexity. And the frequency formula is this solid conclusions require frequency. In other words, you can’t prove anything by once. So simple doesn’t come quickly because you can’t do things frequently, quickly.

John Maxwell:
So simple in that complexity stage means you do it over and over and over again until you’ve reduced it. Okay? To create wealth, you’ve got to have a formula. If you just try something two or three times and it doesn’t work, it doesn’t mean that you should give up. In fact, everyone who creates wealth has a formula that has been repeated time and time again, and their process or their formula works. Most of the time. So let me give you some first time thoughts. Number one. In the beginning, we don’t do well.

John Maxwell:
You don’t have to start off well. You just have to begin. If you begin, you get to well through practice, through frequency. So your goal isn’t to do well in the beginning. Your goal in the beginning is to begin. Number two, for first time thoughts. In the beginning, we don’t have total understanding. Not only do we not do well in the beginning, in the beginning we don’t have total understanding because excellence is doing something enough times that you do it well, and wisdom is doing something enough times that you understand it.

John Maxwell:
And both of these are results of the frequency for me. You got to do things well for a long time to, to understand them. And you gotta, okay, and you gotta do them enough time. So here’s the final frequency kind of formula, thought before we go on in this lesson, things work out over time, but not every time. And so complexity says you not only have to ask questions to get to simple, complexity says you gotta do it a number of times to get to simple. Simple is a matter of frequency. Simple is a matter of asking enough questions. So review again.

John Maxwell:
Simplistic is fast and shallow. Simplistic ask no questions. Simplistic embraces popular thought. The result of simplistic is interest. People notice, but they don’t change. Complexity is slow and deep. Complexity asks many questions, and complexity embraces frequency. Results of complexity is integrity.

John Maxwell:
People who go through this process find truth and reality. But let’s go to simple. Simple is fast and deep. Simple answers questions. Simple embraces proven thought. The result of simple is value. People understand and they experience the growth. So let me give you just a couple closing thoughts.

John Maxwell:
Number one is simplistic never satisfies me. Now, complexity challenges and fulfills me. But in closing on, this is a simple lesson. It’s just very I wanna make sure we got it. Simple works. It works. So here’s the question. How much effort are you putting into your vision to make it simple? How much effort do you put into your communication to make it simple? Simple works.

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Mark Cole:
Hey, welcome back. I’m so glad. I love the standout statement that we have in our lesson notes today. You don’t have to start off well. You just gotta begin. You gotta get going. And I think if we could, we could really synthesize all of this to say, hey, quit over complicating movement and start moving. Because things began to happen when you start moving.

Mark Cole:
I remember the first time, Chris, you’ve heard John say this multiple times, as I have. John says that he’s a motivational speaker and not a motivational teacher. He said a motivational teacher takes things that are simple and makes it complicated. He said that’s what education does. No offense to our educators, who, by the way, has taken a much deserved here in the United States. Some are off, but he says it’s the educational system to take something and create complication around it to get us going. And we’re going to talk today. Obviously, John’s already talked about simplicity and complexity, but a motivational teacher, a motivational speaker takes something that is complicated and makes it simple.

Mark Cole:
I think effective leaders do the same thing. They find a way to take the complex and create a simplistic approach and application plan.

Chris Goede:
I agree with you. And I think that as leaders, we should be obsessed with making everything as simple as possible. Now, that is a lot harder to do. Right. It’s not easy to do. And so I think by doing that, though, you will become, you’ll grow faster, you’ll see results, you’ll learn, you’ll change. And I just think the more simple you can get things, the better. I do want to encourage our listeners, Mark.

Chris Goede:
I think in this lesson, if I heard John correctly, he called us a genius, is what I think I heard him say, because he said early on, a genius is somebody has the ability to reduce the complicated to simple. Well, Mark, and I don’t even really know what complicated is. We’re just simple people. We’re not even sure how. We’ve been around so long. We’re very simple people. And so we’re. Now we can leave geniuses.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. The other thing I want to tell you as, as we’re getting lesson, because Mark and I are so simple, when I listen to this lesson the first time, I’m not going to lie to you. I had to go back and listen to it again. And I want to encourage you to do the same thing, because John is such a wordsmith in this lesson, and when he’s talking about this simplistic and the complexity, but he’s really trying to get you to how do you become simple? And so I want to encourage you to listen to it twice, which might be a little bit better than the first time.

Mark Cole:
And I knew somewhere in this lesson I was going to talk about that. I think it’s now. So I’ve traveled the world with John. I’ve written books with John. I’ve sold books, I’ve sold things. I’ve sold solutions. I’ve shared stages with John. And by the way, when I say we have shared and I have helped him write books, I’m kind of like the little mouse on the elephant, moving things and saying, wow, we’re doing a great job, aren’t we? So please understand, I know my role in great humility.

Mark Cole:
At the same time, I have absolutely been in the room preparing lessons. He’s been in the room with me preparing my lessons. There is no greater diligence that John has when creating a thought to make sure that it has depth. In other words, it has complexity, but make sure that it’s repeatable at the simplistic level. From all of his books, I’m holding one right now, the 15 laws of growth. We’ll talk more about that in a little bit. But every book that he’s done, writing the manuscript, getting the flow, putting the outline together, is not the deal. The deal, the magic of John is taking something and make it repeatable.

Mark Cole:
But make sure it’s deep enough that the most complex listener with the most diligent, almost overwhelming load, and those of us that are just getting out and have stayed pretty simple. Chris, as you said, both can sit in an audience with John and get something.

Chris Goede:
Why?

Mark Cole:
Because it makes it so simple that the most simple minded person can get it. But it’s been thought through with so much depth and complexity that those that have to really lead in complex worlds can take a great deal of takeaways.

Chris Goede:
It reminds me of a conversation since we’re here on podcast land. It made me think about, I can remember we also have another podcast that is, has the word executive on it, right? The Maxwell Leadership executive podcast. And John asked me, what time, what’s the name of the other podcast? And I told him, he was like, that is horrible, right? I’m like, it’s got your name. I mean, that is so complex. Like, can you do give me something else? Like, you’re right. It’s how his mind thinks. And I love that. So let’s talk about this.

Chris Goede:
Let’s talk about the power of what he’s really given us here to get to simple and podcast listeners or viewers on YouTube. I was talking to Mark beforehand and really to give an insight into where he’s at and on his leadership. You know, Mark, you’re making decisions every single day, personally and professionally, for the organization and on behalf of John. A big decisions, little decisions, doesn’t matter. And I’ve seen you over the last couple of years really build this outside circle, as John calls it, where you’re seeking counsel and wisdom and advice, and you’re asking questions of others. Um, and it got me thinking, these questions that John gave us right here, the seven questions. Uh, I went to Mark and I said, mark, I want you to pick your top three, and I want you to walk us through and tell us a little bit why. Like, how do you approach that? What does that look like when you’re going through trying to make something simple for, for our, for our organization, for maybe you personally or your family, whatever it might be.

Chris Goede:
And so let’s dive in, if you don’t mind. I want to go ahead. The first one is really the intuitive question. And unpack that a little bit for us. Why you pick that as one of your top three?

Mark Cole:
Well, I think John even got it right in putting that at the top of the list, and here’s why John teaches this. We agree with it. You’re intuitive in the areas of your strength. So if you’re sitting at a table, you need to assume that you have the strength, you have the chops, you have the competence to be sitting at that table. If you’ve been invited in, I’ve been invited to lead John’s company’s as a CEO for the last 14 years. I have to assume that there was something that got me to that place. Experience, effectiveness, production, several things in that area that gave me that right. There are some strengths that got me there.

Mark Cole:
I need to practice, cultivate, and listen to the intuition that I have in those strengths. So when I’m sitting down for an idea or I’m sitting down to make something simple, I go to my intuition first to see if it even resonates, period. If you can’t get past my intuition that there’s something off or there’s not something intriguing or exciting about this, you.

Chris Goede:
Don’T keep digging on it.

Mark Cole:
Yeah, I don’t keep digging on it. You can come back to me, but you’re going to have to. I mean, I have to really work to go to the next level of asking the questions. If there’s not something that sinks within me in the area of my intuition, I do that with John. I was on the phone with John, I guess, a couple of days ago before this recording, and I brought an idea to him, like I always do. You know, my way of bringing things to John is I identify the problem. I give him three suggestions and a recommendation of my suggestion of the one that I like, and I did that, and it was perfect. I was flawless.

Mark Cole:
I was good, Chris. And he listened, and he really liked it. And then he went, hey, that still doesn’t feel like it sinks to me. I was trying to match a new product offering with an existing product and to show him how it made sense for one of our nonprofits to grab onto this. And he went, no. Intuitively, everything sounds good, but there’s an intuition that we’re thinking that it is. I talked to three more people that he and I recommended, and I’m telling you, his intuition was right. Experts in the field, people that really understood the markets that we were considering going to for this product, he played it out because his intuition, listened to it, loved it.

Mark Cole:
I believe that too many of us have, first, number one, not even realized, embraced and admitted the areas of our strength.

Chris Goede:
Right.

Mark Cole:
Therefore, we devalue and create an ineffectiveness around our intuition. Because if John’s right, and I believe he is, we’re intuitive in the areas of our strength. If we won’t even admit where we have strength, we don’t know where to cultivate our intuition.

Chris Goede:
Now, I 100% agree with you. I also know that even though that’s your area of strength, you don’t take that lightly. So talk to, uh, us real quick about when. When this is number one. And you’re right. I didn’t even think about that. It should be at the top of the list. Right? Cause ultimately, as a leader, that’s where it’s gotta start.

Chris Goede:
You have some decisions to make. Let’s. Let’s talk about a scenario, right? And all of a sudden, you don’t just flippantly go, and I’m driving down the road, I’m headed to Zaxby’s. By the way, if you ever want to win Mark’s heart, just send them some Zaxby’s gift cards. But, but you don’t go, oh, let me just. Where’s my gut? At that, you really, you spent some time talk. What’s the process you go through when you’re trying again to think through some things? These are complex questions. We’re trying to get to a simple answer.

Chris Goede:
What do you go through to make sure you’re checking your gut intuitively on what you’re trying to make a decision on?

Mark Cole:
Yeah, I tried to the best of my ability, and we’re still in the area of intuition. I tried to the best of my ability figure out where the bad check or the exciting check is coming from.

Chris Goede:
Where do you get excited about it?

Mark Cole:
Where’s the stimulation coming from? Where’s the hesitation coming from? I gotta figure that out. If I can’t figure it out, and sometimes you can’t, then intuition, that’s where it stays. I’m ready for the next question. If I have an intuitive, a gut check, as John says in the lesson today, if I have a gut check, I very quickly go, why am I having a gut check here? And sometimes it’s because I had a bad experience with that potential partner before. Sometimes it’s because, man, I’ve already tried that before, and I have no desire to do it. Sometimes I get so excited because it’s this area of interest to me. All of those are neither good or bad. They just are.

Mark Cole:
But if I can source as much as possible the place where my intuitive feeling is coming from, I’m ready for the next question. If I can’t. If I can’t source it, I’m still ready for the next question. But I go in better using my intuitive question. If I can source a spot, a place of the intuitive promptings.

Chris Goede:
And how I know you do this is cause you share this with our leadership team, which is brilliant, right? Cause you come in and you go, hey, let me tell you the process that I’ve gone through, and it always starts with, man, I sat down, and this is what I’m getting excited about, and this is where my check is. And so that’s, that’s, that’s awesome for us to observe and learn. It also as a team gets us to buy in to whether we’re going that direction or not, or we’re simplifying or, or not. And so, uh, I love sharing that. Cause I’ve seen you live that out from a leader’s perspective. All right, the second one that we’re going to unpack a little bit is the foundation question here that John poses, where John says, can this bear the weight of time, others opinions, thought, and adversity, what does that what does that mean to you? Why is that one of your top three?

Mark Cole:
It’s interesting because I think if I would have, you’ve asked me this question early on in my leadership journey, I probably wouldn’t even know what you meant by the foundation. Right. And for those of you that you heard John give the seven questions and you went, ah, foundation doesn’t even make sense. I understand that. Let me tell you why it’s important.

Chris Goede:
That’s good. Yeah, tell us.

Mark Cole:
I have been given an incredible gift by leading the iconic brand, Maxwell leadership. This is a brand that’s preceded me. It preceded you. This is John and what he has given to the world. So, because there is so much legacy, there’s so much infrastructure to what we have been given to lead. I always go back to a foundation question, whether it’s a partner, whether it’s a product, whether it’s a perception, any of those. I go back and answer this, does this fit on the foundation that we’ve been given? Now, if I was truly an entrepreneur, and I feel like I am an entrepreneur, started certain things, but if I was truly starting something else, the foundation question probably would not be as relevant. But because I’m leading such an iconic, such a legacy brand or concept, it is incredibly important to me.

Mark Cole:
So that’s the reason that I want to do it. Now, here’s the good news. If that doesn’t apply to you, when you build something that lasts, when you do have something that becomes sustainable, you’re going to start asking the foundation questions. So if it’s not relevant now, hang on. It’ll be there. That’s what we hope. Don’t be temporary in what you’re doing to where the foundation doesn’t matter.

Chris Goede:
And I, when we started this, I talked about the fact that Mark has an outer circle that he will seek different questions through, uh, in order to get to a simple place, uh, for him. Uh, the three we’re going to cover here are, are more internal for him. There are some others that are external. And I’ve also, uh, seen you just being able to ride shotgun with you for so long, be able to go to your external and say, here’s what I went through internally. Check me on that. Right? Like, do you see anything? Do you miss anything? And, uh, that foundation question, no doubt. I was actually going, hmm, where’s he going to go with this? But it makes total sense, right? Because you’re. You are, every day you wake up, every minute you and Steph, you’re focused in the calling of how does this legacy, this brand outlive all of us, you know, to honor what John started.

Chris Goede:
It makes total sense around foundation.

Mark Cole:
Let me make it, it’s trace and Tracy co hosts with me. She, we always go family a lot of times because she’s so passionate about relationships. But, but let me, let me go there because I’ve watched you raised two brilliant human beings that are now adulting, and I’m right in the middle. Just recently having graduated our baby girl from grade school, she’s done with senior class and now she’s going to, she’s going to university. And I’m watching her right now. Go. Okay, Macy, you built twelve years to get you where you are now. In fact, me, you and Stephanie and Sarah went to dinner and you really helped me with this thought when I went, okay, Macy, you’ve been rewarded.

Mark Cole:
You’ve had people, institutions that picked you because you were desirable with the way that you studied. And I’m watching her now begin to make her first year college decisions. And I’m teaching her to ask the foundational questions. Oh, why, Mark? She’s just starting college. Give her a break. No, no, no. For twelve years, she’s established the kind of learning she wants to do, the kind of student she wants to be, the kind of trajectory that she wants to be on. And I’m challenging her.

Mark Cole:
Ask foundational questions. Even though you’re starting something that feels like there’s no foundation, you have a Foundation. And when you’re teaching your kids, establish those foundation questions for them.

Chris Goede:
That’s great.

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Chris Goede:
All right, the third one you picked here, which just was not a surprise to me. The connecting question, does this connect with the heart and the mind? Tell us a little bit about this one.

Mark Cole:
Yeah. So I’m really passionate about, I don’t know how much time we’ll have in how John helped me become a better communicator. I’m not a thought leader necessarily. I’m a thought applier I can apply John’s content, but I’ve never spent the time or the diligence that is needed to really be a thought leader like John does day in and day out. However, when I began to realize I needed to communicate from stages to be believable for what John’s asked me to do, I struggled for some time until John challenged me as a communicator to connect the head and the heart of what I was communicating. I’ve always done that naturally as a leader, I’m a connecting leader. We’ve talked about that in recent podcasts. I know how to connect with people.

Mark Cole:
So in this area, connecting to me means really reconciling the head and the heart of what we’re doing. I talked to one of our leaders, one of mine and your peers that are on our leadership team this morning before the podcast recording. And I was telling him, I said, there is a time for sowing in a business. There’s time for sowing just adding tremendous value. And there’s a time of reaping because there was a real wrestle with, well, is this a head or a heart? And there was a real question on is this too much head and not enough heart? And you’re not gonna always, I lead with the heart. That’s how I lead when I have to, or when it’s time to lead from the head, from how we’re gonna get it done. And I am asking somebody for a hand, I’ve gotta make sure that I don’t see it as a balance. It’s a tension.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Mark Cole:
And when we live in that tension, and we allow that tension to connect the head and the heart, then we’re able to not only be effective at adding value, we’re effective at asking for commitment, of engaging people in a better lifestyle, better life plan down the road. My challenge to all of us that are in this connecting time is you have a bent. You’re all head. I mean, you passionate about the head, you’re passionate about the heart, you have a bent. But connecting the two and helping your team to connect the two is the art of leadership.

Chris Goede:
When you do that, as I mentioned early on in this recording, I said we should all strive to oversimplify everything we possibly can. We don’t because it’s hard to do that. But I think when you do that and you’re able to connect it to the heart and to the head, it simplifies it, not only for you, but also for the people around you, at which point in time, then I think you get increased engagement and buy in. And back to a comment you made just a minute ago as we started. You get movement, you get momentum, you get the first step by being able to do that.

Mark Cole:
Exactly.

Chris Goede:
Because you’re going to be able to get people to move that. All right, so then John goes on and he talks about this. The frequency formula immediately made me think about the success cycle, which we have talked about on here previously. But I want you to just talk about it just for a moment because I think the power of this is, and when we teach it, when we talk about it, is that repetition. And John talks in here about the fact that it’s not going to happen the first time. And we got to do it over and over. We got, and it’s going to turn into simple and yet profound and then hopefully has a huge impact on significance, on people. Talk about the success cycle and if you, if something comes to mind that you think about that frequency that you’ve gone through that with something in your leadership that you’ve seen become simpler because you went through that, if something comes to mind, I’d love for you to share that.

Mark Cole:
Yeah. So what I love about John, and I’ll talk about the success cycle in just a moment, but what I love again about John is he will take something that has worked, he’ll stay with it until he understands the complexity of it, and then he spends the rest of his time, which would be, if it was a quantifiable thing, it would be 75% he will take to begin to simplify so that it is scalable, repeatable and expandable. So when we look at success, John, we’ve had a lot of success, by the way, we’ve had a lot of failure too. But we’ve had a lot of success in John’s world for much longer than I’ve been here for 24 years. We look at success as really a way to navigate through lessons and failures effectively. And we also look at success as the willingness to do something before it as a shot at success. And we call that test. And so we’re very, very passionate about testing new things.

Mark Cole:
Try something new. I mean, sit with John for one plane ride and you have 14 ideas that he’s working on. That’s all testing, testing. And then what we know is because we’re in a test, there’s going to be some failure. So it’s test, failure, learn, improve, reenter. Okay, so test, fail, learn, improve, reenter. That’s our test. That’s our success cycle.

Mark Cole:
So we testing, we’re failing, but we will not consider a failure a success until we have extrapolated a lesson from that moment. Now, at that point, it quits being a failure, and then it’s a lesson.

John Maxwell:
Right.

Mark Cole:
And when we learn, we have to put that learning, that lesson into application, and that’s where improvement come. And so we will not test again unless we have improvement from the last test, from the last failure, from the last lesson, so that we can then re enter. And so it’s just this simple little thing probably sounds very simple to many. It is incredibly layered for us.

Chris Goede:
And when, when we learn in those areas, what I’ve seen happen is going back off the DNA of John. What we learn may be complicated, but we don’t re enter until we simplify it.

Mark Cole:
That’s exactly right.

Chris Goede:
And so, and then what happens is you go through that process and through that frequency, and then you simplify it. And then you do it again. And you do it again. Right. And that’s where that repetition comes in, where it’s going to happen multiple times in order to do that. And again, we can get complicated in a hurry. We have some complicated things. We’re always challenging ourselves, and we’ve got to get as simple as possible.

Chris Goede:
Well, as we wrap up, what I want you to spend some time here on, and you’ve had the opportunity to have John mentor you in several different areas over so many years. I know you talk quite a bit about him mentoring you from the stage, from the platform of communication, but I think he also mentors you in the area of simplifying your communication to team to one on one, to, uh, maybe some, some conflict areas you’re having also from stage. So it’s really a big picture of how do I simplify my communication? You’re you. You process while you’re talking. And I know John’s worked through some of those things with you, but he’s also helped you with, man, don’t get complicated on this vision over here. You got some big mark, I love where you’re going, man. It’s bigger than I could have ever thought of it. But how do we simplify that? So, spend our closing moments here talking about John’s last two statements about how much effort you have put into simplifying your vision and communication from what you’ve learned from John.

Mark Cole:
Yeah. You know, I talked just briefly about this early in the podcast where John worked on me and connected my head and heart with my communication. And when he did that, I began to communicate better at the vision level to my team, to individuals on the team and I definitely improved my communication from stage because I became believable people. People want to feel confidence from you more than they feel and hear content from you. They want to believe that you believe what you’re saying rather than you’re trying to impress them with what you say. One of the things that has driven John crazy for years and now drives me crazy is when somebody from stage is communicating. They got the mic, they got the eyeballs, they got the audio system, they got it all. And they ask a question that nobody in the audience knows, unless they are an expert in that question, or unless they were googling the same thing, that speakers giggled last night.

Mark Cole:
How far is it from the sun to the moon? How far is it from earth to Jupiter? They’ll ask these questions and even pause, as if somebody’s out there contemplating that answer. It is so irrelevant. Not because there’s not great information in that question, because no one in the audience feels like they can win with that question right now. What that really means is for you to simplify your vision or your message. You’ve got to create a vision or a message that is believable to the people hearing it. Too many people talk too much about their successes, and they create a gap, a communication gap, between themselves and the people listening to the message. The best communicators. This is what John does so well.

Mark Cole:
He minimizes himself and maximizes the people that he’s communicating with. And when I began to distill my application of John from having sit close in proximity with him for 1015 years and actually broke it down to a lesson I just heard coupled with the struggle I was having, I became a much greater communicator because people empathized with the struggle. They actually began to pull for me that I would get through the struggle, and then they could to apply that struggle with the application that I was given, and it absolutely turned my communication around. Same thing with vision. Those of us that have to communicate vision. When you communicate vision from your vantage point, you have separated 90% of the people that needs to buy into your vision. You’ve got to communicate vision from the vantage point of the people that can’t see what you can see and that can’t hear and feel what you can hear and feel. You’ve got to simplify that down.

Mark Cole:
Not that it’s important for you to still see all the steps and chaos and critical thinking that’s going to be required to get there. But when you begin to take people on a journey, you’ve got to get it to a place to where people that can’t see from your vantage point can still see it, feel it, believe it, embrace it, and begin to champion it.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. If you confuse them, you lose them.

Mark Cole:
That’s exactly what I’m saying.

Chris Goede:
So. Well, Mark, I appreciate that. Again, I have seen your growth in this area, and I just want to encourage everybody out there that the more things in your life that you can simplify, the higher engagement, not only will you have in that, but also that your team will have in what you’re communicating or the vision that you have. So appreciate you sharing that.

Mark Cole:
Yeah. And, you know, I try. Our team tries. We always want to give you a next step. What can you do? So you’ve listened to the podcast. You’re doing great. In fact, I’m going to talk about Nathan, one of our podcast listeners and viewers, in just a moment. But this year, this week, I want you to do two things.

Mark Cole:
One is I want you to go. We’re going to put in the show notes your ability to get the 15 laws of communication. 16 laws. The 16 laws of communication. John has done a great job of simplifying the way to connect with one, an audience of one, an audience of 1000. And so it’s a great book. If you haven’t picked that up and don’t have that Maxwell book in your library, we’ll put that in there. We’ll give you a 15% discount in this area that we’re talking about of keeping it simple.

Mark Cole:
It starts internally, it starts with your leadership journey, your growth journey. And so I want to make our online content, we have an online course on the 15 laws of growth. So we’ll make this available to you today. It’s normally $449, but we’re going to make it available to you, podcast listeners for $99 by entering in the code. I want to challenge you to get it, begin to go through it, begin to listen to it, because I know that it will help you. I wanted to close today, as I like to do with one of our podcast listeners. Nathan was listening to the podcast experience breakthrough, part one. We’ll make that link available to you in case you want to hear it like Nathan did.

Mark Cole:
This is what Nathan said. He said, I listen to this podcast nearly every day. The Maxwell Leadership podcast. In fact, I think I have heard every episode at least once. Thanks for the constant encouragement to be bigger, better and brighter, Nathan, thank you. You’re why we do what we do. And we want to encourage every one of you to lead better, because everyone deserves to be led well.