Maxwell Leadership Podcast: Great Leaders Add Value

Mark Cole:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. Our podcast is a podcast that adds value to leaders because we want you to multiply value to others. I’m Mark Cole, and today I truly can say that John Maxwell is a guy that adds value to to leaders. He looks for ways to add value to leaders. And so today, John Maxwell is going to share a lesson on ethics in leadership and how those ethics begin to play out in the importance of good values and taking those good values and adding value to others. You’ve probably heard it before, but the golden rule states this. Treat others how you would like to be treated. And after John’s lesson today, I’ll be joined by my good friend and co host, Traci Morrow, and we’ll begin to discuss what John has shared with us today and then offer some practical advice on how you can apply it to your life and to your leadership.

Mark Cole:
Now, if you would like to download our free bonus resource or watch this episode on YouTube, go to MaxwellPodcast.com/ValuePeople I have a request for you today before we jump into John and give us some feedback on how you’re doing. Wherever you listen to this podcast, wherever you subscribe, give us a comment, let us know how we’re doing, give us some input, give us some insight on how we can impact and add value to you better. Because that is the name of the game. Great leaders value people. Here is John Maxwell.

John Maxwell:
Ethics is all about doing the right thing, regardless of the situation. Basically, just treating others as you want to be treated. I want to do the right thing and I want to treat you as I would want to be treated. You know, social trust is the fact that people will do what they ought to do. Social mistrust is people won’t do what they ought to do. The importance of values, the golden rules of value. And I began to in leadership, began to write leadership, and began to teach leadership based on values. You know, I’m known for the statement, everything rises and falls on leadership.

John Maxwell:
It’s very true. Well, there’s the positive everything rises. And there’s the negative, everything falls. And it’s a result of either good leadership, which causes it to rise, or bad leadership, which causes leadership to fall. And so when we ask ourselves, what allows leadership to bless people and add value to people and make a difference to people and what allows leadership to rise? It’s two things. It’s competence and it’s good values. And you can’t substitute one for the other. You could be very competent but have poor values in your life.

John Maxwell:
In other words, you know how to lead. But what do you do with your poor values? You manipulate people. That’s always wrong. And so it’s not like. And by the way, you could have good values but not have leadership skills. So the good news is everybody loves you and values you, but you can’t lead them anywhere. So when we talk about everything rises, it has to be competence, and it has to be on good values. That’s what allows leadership to rise.

John Maxwell:
Well, the opposite is also true, that when leadership falls, when a community doesn’t do well because of bad leadership, it’s almost always because of incompetence and bad values. And when you think of ethics, the core of ethics is based upon valuing people. I will be an ethical person. I’ll do what I ought to do as a leader to you and for you, if I value you. But if I don’t value you, if I devalue you, then I’m not going to be ethical towards you. They run together. You can’t say, well, I devalue people, but I’m very ethical. And if you truly value people, you wouldn’t be unethical.

John Maxwell:
They always have to go together. I mean, if I think if I lead because of perks, I mean, I lead because I get a corner office, I lead because I get a parking place. I lead because I get to be in control, get to be the boss. There’s too many leaders. That’s why they lead. And we should lead not out of reward. We should lead out of responsibility. We should lead out of the fact that we have been given leadership gifts and opportunities to help help people get better and improve their lives.

John Maxwell:
And it should always be the people first. And so I think selfishness, power, I think pressure, I think pressure causes us to be an ethic. So when I think of ethics, there are two important issues. I think with ethics that you just need to make sure you have. And number one is you have to have a standard to follow. We’ve talked already about that, the Golden Rule. It’s a standard that we say, okay, this is how we should behave. This is what we ought to do.

John Maxwell:
We all buy into the fact that we should treat others as we would like to be treated. Now, there are a few exceptions, but most people, they buy into that. That’s a standard to follow. But ethics goes more than just having a standard to follow. It also insists that we have a will to make it happen. In other words, it’s one thing to say, okay, we have a standard, the golden rule, but where is the personal will that I say, I’m going to make sure that I treat others as I would like to be treated. I mean, after all, is somebody policing this? And so it’s one thing to know what is ethical and what is right. It’s another thing to do it.

John Maxwell:
Hey, there are a lot of things that we know that we don’t do. Come on, let’s be honest. So we have to be able to know it, but we also have to be able to do it. But I began to ask myself the question, if I’m going to value people, how do I want to be treated? I mean, just go ask yourself, how do you want other people to treat you? If the golden rule says treat others, how do you want to be treated? Well, I listed some things right here for you. Number one is I want to be valued in the workplace. I want to be valued. You know, 70% of the people, when they leave their job, they leave it because they didn’t feel valued. It’s very interesting.

John Maxwell:
People get hired. People take a job because of the organization, but they almost leave that job because of a person. You know, they join the company, okay. But pretty soon they have to work with people. And when you work with somebody that’s not ethical and you don’t feel valued, you know, then you leave. So here’s what I want to be valued. Secondly, I want to be understood. I want people to understand me, which means they care enough for me that they’ll unconditionally love me and that they’ll value me, even though always my opinions and my perspective might be different than theirs.

John Maxwell:
I want to be respected. I think we all want to be respected, which is always earned. Respect is always earned on difficult ground. I love it when somebody says, well, you can always tell somebody it’s immature when they say, well, I demand respect. Well, you really can’t demand respect. You have to earn it. And you earn it when you do the right things, when you’re ethical, during times when you could have been unethical. That’s how you earn respect.

John Maxwell:
I want to be trusted. Wow. I want to be trusted. You want to be trusted. We all want to be trusted. This is so true, isn’t it? We want to be trusted. And most of all, I don’t want people to take advantage of me. I really.

John Maxwell:
I just don’t want to. I want them to do right for me, and I want to do right for them. Now, all of this teaching on ethics and values became a catalyst for me. Mass movements don’t begin with the mass they begin with a few, but you get a few people that begin to talk about values and discuss them and ask questions and go out and try and come back and give answers of what worked, what didn’t work. And all of a sudden there begins to be this magic of positive change in the lives of people. I think everybody wants to make a positive difference. I just think that most people don’t know how. And I think most of the time we try to go big, and big is overwhelming.

John Maxwell:
I didn’t say change the world. That’s too big. I just said change your world. And the core is values. Once people live and learn good values, they become more valuable and then they begin to add value to other people. That’s the way it works.

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Mark Cole:
Hey, thanks for, thanks for coming back, Traci. I’m super excited to dig into this today, but you know, I was thinking, and Jake, our podcast producers, thanks for reminding me of this, but we did a podcast about great leaders valuing people. And in the show notes today, I’m going to give you an episode reference and that episode I want to bring your attention to is how leaders lift others. You’re going to find in this podcast. If you’ve enjoyed today, you’re going to find yet another time where John shares with us on really valuing people is lifting people. And so I can’t wait to share with you today. But Peter Drucker says this management is doing things right. Leadership is doing the right things. Traci, man, you’re a leader that I value. You do things right and you do the right things.

Mark Cole:
And so it’s good to hang out with you today. Good to be able to share some things that we’ve learned from years and years and years of watching John add value to people.

Traci Morrow:
Yes, he sure does add value to People. And I think this is a great topic to dive into, ethics, because I think this is really a missing piece for people. I feel like in the old days, dating myself there with that terminology. But this was kind of something that was passed down from grandparents and this is something that is perhaps missing today. And so I always love that we can dive in and hear your input and how you, with such close proximity to John, how you seen John put this into action, being who John is, but how that’s playing out in your leadership as well. So John starts out talking about treating others as we want to be treated. And so a lot of times in leadership and in business, we see people really looking out for number one. That’s kind of what we tend to think of in clawing your way to the tops.

Traci Morrow:
But I’m curious, in the world that you live in and all the top level leaders that you see both in the United States and around the globe, do you really believe, based on what you’ve seen and the people who you’ve talked to, do you think it’s possible to bring this into big contract negotiations, into the world stage, Onto the world stage? And what kind of leadership moves then have you personally made pulling it in really tight and close to both you and John? From what you’ve seen, what kind of leadership moves have you personally made lately? With this in mind, thank you for asking that question.

Mark Cole:
I did not know podcast family that Traci was going to ask that. But as I was listening to John today, I’ve met recently, in the last six, eight weeks, I’ve met some world leaders, just some leaders that are heads of their organization, their country, their global organization. And I’ve watched these people not whether they’re good people of character or good people of the people, majority’s opinion, but whether they truly stand for what they say they believe. And I think what John is talking about here, so many times we talk about ethics, do to others as you would have done to you. I’ve watched some people really take a hard line with people. Maybe they’re abrasive. And yet the thing that gets their attention the most is abrasive behavior. And today I absolutely believe in morals and character and ethics as we normally interpret them.

Mark Cole:
But today, as you asked that question, I thought I want to talk for a moment about leaders, that their actions match their words. Whether it’s a political leader that talks about all of their agenda being for the people or the political leader that says, hey, I’m going to take advantage of this policy and I’m going to take advantage of this office and I’m going to get as much as I can out of this office. I’ve watched leaders that ethically, in other words, they say what they mean and they mean what they say. They do what they say, they say what they do. And I’ve watched leaders of every persuasion of one side of the political landscape or the other side of the political landscape actually gain social trust. Not because they’re a nice person, but because they say what they do, they do what they say. And you asked that question of me just recently. I’ve spent some time with some world leaders that you would look at their policy from a human rights or from an advocate and you go, oh man, I don’t like the policy.

Mark Cole:
But when you get behind closed doors, there is a consistency in their policy and in their practice. For me, you asked the question just a moment ago, how am I putting that into play in my leadership? Just you and I, Traci, were at an event not too long ago, and I realized it had been way too long since I had spoken to our most tenured relationships from the heart. I had spoken to them from a vision standpoint. I had spoken to them from a plan, a strategy standpoint. But it had been a long time, Traci, since I just sat down and I said, hey, I want to talk to you about matters of the heart today. And I’ll tell you, the amount of, not just compliments, but the amount of acknowledgment that they had really heard me was at an all time high. Why? Because there was an ethical alignment between what we had been doing and what I was on the inside, I believe podcast family. I believe people want to hear your heart as much as they want to hear your idea, your vision, they want to capture it.

Mark Cole:
And that’s what John’s saying right here. People began to trust when people began to see a congruency between your actions and your words.

Traci Morrow:
I think without meaning to, you showed two different kind of leadership. And it’s the difference between point one and point two that John makes there in your notes, and I hope you’ve printed out your bonus resource notes because he talks about what allows leadership to rise. And you said a lot of times people, depending on which side of the aisle or whatever, people’s social trust will be in someone when their competence shows, when their words align with their behaviors, that that develops a trust with people. But then what you showed is it’s not just enough to have competence, it’s not just enough to have Your words aligning with your behaviors, that’s just showing you’re a competent leader. But the next part was showing that you have good values. And. And then that can. Sometimes, just because your words align with your actions doesn’t mean that you actually are valuing people.

Traci Morrow:
And so moving into talking about good values. And people really want to see a leader rise and see leadership rise, because as the leader rises and leadership rises, so the people rise. And so it’s not just enough to be competent, but you also want to have the people in mind. So I love how John talks about values, and let’s move into that. I think we live in a world where people have a social mistrust of leadership because they might be a competent leader, but they might not be valuing, you know, or having good values. And I don’t think that we all necessarily value the good thing, because values. We started to say at the top of this podcast that we don’t necessarily have all the same values getting on the same page. So I would love to talk a little bit about you and Maxwell leadership and bringing the, you know, the shared language back to the people and what that looks like, maybe back to schools, kids in schools and beginning there.

Traci Morrow:
And where do you stand? I mean, I think we’ve talked about on the podcast before, but where do you stand? Where do you and John stand with Maxwell Leadership in. In seeing that need? And how do you bring that. What are you doing to bring that to kind of think like, okay, we need a reset, because you don’t just see a problem and go, oh, wow, that’s. That’s really a problem. No, at Maxwell Leadership, it’s. If we see the problem and it’s like you’re trying to make a change, talk a little bit about what you guys are doing and what Maxwell Leadership is doing to be a part of good, healthy change.

Mark Cole:
Yeah. You know, first of all, let me state the problem. And I think the problem is, is that generally there is a mistrust in leadership now. And I don’t want to become an expert of something. I really. Even though I’ve been years and years and years in the leadership space, I don’t want to become a pseudo expert of something that would require a lot longer of a podcast. But just generally speaking, I believe that the reason that we’ve had this lapse of trust from follower to leader is because there’s too many models now of people that are looking out for themselves. And I think that’s because I think a big reason of that there’s A lot of reasons, I think contributing factors, but I think one of those is the rise of social media.

Mark Cole:
My statement has to fit in 140 characters or less. And those of you that were in the early, early, early days of social media, you’ll understand and remember the 140 characters or less. And anybody can sound good for 140 characters. But can you sound good for 140 days or can you look good for 140 months? And because we’ve leaned on short, abbreviated statements, we then have this Persona, this ideology of people that we follow only to find out that once you observe them for 140 posts or 140 months that they’re inconsistent. And so now we have deemed everybody inconsistent because we tried to fit everybody into a small post or a small excerpt. And you can’t do that. You’ve got. Leadership is, as John says, is crock pot, not microwave.

Mark Cole:
It is worked over time. And so what does that mean? It means the youth of today’s world has a built in mistrust that just because somebody says it doesn’t mean that it is reality. So how do we fix that? We began to have a values conversation with students, rather among students. Again, there’s already a mistrust. There’s an abyss of trust going from leadership role to leadership impact in the follower. So what we have done at Maxwell Leadership is we have begun to create student led, student facilitated values conversation. That’s happening inside a classroom, that’s happening inside the educational system, and we’re loving what we see. You know why, Traci? Because inside all of us.

Mark Cole:
And this is a, this is a faith reference for me, forgive me if you don’t have that same reference. We’re all created in the image of God. So therefore inside of each of us is a built in set of values. That’s why every religion, let me restate it accurately, 88% of the religions around the world has a variation of do to others as you would have done to you. Inside of us is an innate desire to matter, to be respected, to be valued. Therefore, if we can live off of that value. I should value you, Traci. I should value you, podcast listener, because I want value and I want to matter myself.

Mark Cole:
So an interesting thing is happening. When you give people an outlet to begin talking about values and about adding value to one another, guess what happens? They begin valuing one another. They began adding value to each other because it’s innate in us. It is built in, within us. My challenge to everybody listening to the podcast today is to sit down with a co worker, with a family member, with somebody in your community and begin talking about what they value, begin talking about what matters to them, begin challenging them to see the intrinsic value within them and watch the results of connection happen. Because inside of each of us is a desire to do for others. What we want done for ourselves is the desire to value others because we want to be valued. And we’re seeing these students, Traci, in our nonprofit, we’re watching them begin to lift the lid of values around.

Mark Cole:
And by the way, we’re seeing trust begin to happen among these students as well.

Traci Morrow:
I love that. And I love that you went right there, because then people can hear that that’s what Maxwell Leadership is doing out in the world, but also in the United States as well. So, John, which led right into John talking about, leaders shouldn’t do this for a reward. It’s not about perks. It’s about responsibility. And what you just described is seeing the responsibility. John, at 78 years old, is not thinking about the perks at this season of his life. He’s thinking about the responsibility, the weight of where he’s come as he’s passing the baton to you in this next generation of how do we bring that to the next generation.

Traci Morrow:
But the leaders who are listening to our podcast are a variety of ages. Business owners, entrepreneurs, people in ministry, people who are in their communities and in their families are, might be thinking like, that’s great for students. But also what would be the rally cry? What would be to the leader to have that mindset shift around the responsibility of people right where they are today, not just students.

Mark Cole:
Let me ask you a question, podcast listener, podcast viewer. You can sense, you can sense the authenticity of the leaders that has led you, that has shaped you, that has influenced you throughout your life. Can’t you, I mean, right now, let me just challenge you. Can you think about that leader that was manipulating you and how it made you feel, how challenged you were following that leader and then go to the adverse of that somebody that really was leading you from a sense of responsibility, that it was about adding value to you, not extrapolating value from you. Now go back to the adverse of those two leaders. What was the difference? I’ve seen leaders that manipulate people that are very effective, they produce a lot the value or the long standing impact that that leader that was leading you from a sense of responsibility rather than trying to manipulate you with rewards, is the difference in how you would describe them right now. It’s the difference in how you remember them and it’s the difference in how they’re still shaping you, even though perhaps you’re not working or leading or depending on their leadership right now. See, a sustainable leadership impact comes from leaders who realize I’m not trying to manipulate people, I’m not trying to reward somebody for results.

Mark Cole:
I’m leading them from a sense of responsibility, that my leadership’s long term effectiveness is 100% based on my commitment to benefit the person that I’m leading rather than be benefited from the people that I’m leading. And way too often the leader that finds a way to get the most out of people gets instant results, they get instant gratification, but they lose long term trust. Because we don’t want leaders that lead out of reward. We want leaders that lead from a sense of responsibility.

Traci Morrow:
And you can tell the difference of somebody who is faking it. You know that old saying, fake it till you make it, but you can tell somebody who really truly values. Values you versus somebody who is just sort of calling it in and faking it. And so as our time is closing out, what I, I really, this whole ethics thing that John is talking about, that is really and truly something. If someone’s listening and they’re like, I really want to care about people more. I want why Part of why I’m drawn to Maxwell Leadership, why I’m drawn to Mark Cole, why I’m drawn to John Maxwell to be a mentor in my life. And why I listen to this is because I really and truly want to care about people. And one of the things said in this, it was almost a throwaway statement, it was just tucked away in this podcast.

Traci Morrow:
And I just, it, it just stood out to me and I would love for you to just speak on it a little bit as we close. But he said pressure causes people to be unethical. And I just thought that is really true because we haven’t made decisions ahead of time, that and established things ahead of time. So under pressure, what comes out is what’s truly inside of us. And so I’m just curious, I mean, you really do, it really does come down to if you, if you’re faking caring about people, that’s going to come out. And so, but what are some things you have to establish those things before pressure comes in. So are there things that you have pre agreed upon with yourself that when pressure comes, it’s just your go to Mark that you have either learned from John or learned from observing John, that you thought, that’s something I want to take in and make a part of myself that you’ve gone when pressure came up and you thought, wow, you’ve been pleased to see that it really became a part of you.

Mark Cole:
Yeah. So I love that statement, by the way, that almost throwaway statement that pressure really gives us. I think John says pressure, it brings out sometimes the worst in us. I think it gives us an opportunity to bring the greatness out of us.

Traci Morrow:
To shine.

Mark Cole:
Yes, to shine. And so I do think that. But my nature. My nature works against me in times of pressure. And let me explain why. If you ask me to do a values exercise, we do a values exercise here at Maxwell Leadership. We take CEOs through this deck of values and actually we let them write their own values in. If we’ve missed something that they really value.

Mark Cole:
And we take them through this exercise that they have to pick the ones that matter most to them, the ones that don’t resonate as much with them. They create two piles. Then the ones that matter the most to them, we whittle it down to 10, then 5 and 3, and then ultimately 1. And watching people wrestle by giving up a value that really means to them, so in exchange for one that just means everything to them is very interesting. My top five values, every time I do that, one of my top five values is passion. I believe everything worth doing is worth doing with passion and all in and everything within you. And yet the minimizer of passion is intensity. It is overwhelming others because they don’t feel the same passion level for whatever I’m most passionate right now.

Mark Cole:
And so I lose effectiveness, Traci, too often, not because of character or ethics like we’re talking about today, but because my passion overwhelms people as intensity, and then they lose out. Well, then I lose credibility with them. One of the time I get most passionate about is during the times of crisis, during the times of problems. Because what is it that Carly Fiorina says that leadership is problem solving, Nothing more, nothing less. And so as a leader, when a problem surfaces, the thing I want to do is I want to solve it. Well, sometimes solving it prematurely does not solve it at all. It only exacerbates the problem. Sometimes solving the problem doesn’t allow the problem to perfect us in the journey.

Mark Cole:
Sometimes problems are really about perfecting, not about solving. Therefore, what I learned to do. You’ve heard John talk about the power of the pause in communication. I believe there is power in the pause when leaders are solving problems. I pause when I’m doing it right, Traci, which is not as much as I would like. I always pause and say, first question, is this my problem to solve or is this a learning moment for somebody else? Every time I face a problem or crisis, I pause and say, should I let this perfect excellence in me by sitting in the problem a little bit longer? In other words, am I trying too quickly to get to the solution that I don’t the process to solution to perfect me? And the third question that I always ask is, how would somebody more mature than me solve this problem? And when I put that pause in is this my problem to solve? Is this my problem to solve today? And is this the best solution to the problem? By putting those three questions into problem solving and putting kind of that leadership pause to solving the problem, I have discovered that I’m better at problem solving. I have discovered that I don’t miss lessons or moments in the midst of trying to solve the problem. And here’s what I’ve really learned.

Mark Cole:
I’m much more tolerable in my intensity when I slow down and let other people speak into it, rather than other people feel the effect of it. And when I can do that, then my valuing of others and my consistency or my ethics, like we’ve been talking about today, begins to be more trusted by the people around me rather than uncertain. Because which side of Mark are we going to face today? The intense one or the more patient one? The more tolerable one. And trust me, everybody around me wants.

Traci Morrow:
The more tolerable one of all of us, I believe. Well, this has been an incredible lesson and I just love how John just ends with people just want to go big, but big is overwhelming. And that’s why he says, don’t try to change the world, just try to change your world. And that’s what he did here with us today.

Mark Cole:
Yeah, you know, Solomon is one of our podcast listeners and Solomon, who is listening, by the way, we’ll put this in the show notes too. I challenge you to listen to this podcast as well. But. But Solomon was listening to the podcast the foundation of a Leader. And Solomon said, after listening to this podcast, my calling is more clear than ever. And thank you to the Maxwell podcast, because your podcast is life changing and adds value to me daily. Thanks for making me better, Solomon. You make us better, my friend.

Mark Cole:
If I were beginning a leadership journey today and some of you are just now listening to this podcast, this is one of your first episodes that you’ve heard of our podcast, I would really challenge myself to really get a foundation of how leadership works. John said it in this lesson, everything rises and falls on leadership. And one of the things that we have that I’ll put in the show notes is a digital product called the 21 laws of leadership. We’re going to give you a great discount there, but I’m really talking to those of you that do not have a foundation of, of ethics, of a foundation of consistent adding value as a leader. And the best product that John has ever done on how leadership works is the 21 Laws of Leadership. And we’ll put that in the show notes. We want you to take advantage of that. We do this because we want you to bring powerful, positive change to the world around you because everyone deserves to be led.

Mark Cole:
Well.

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